'Death trap on wheels'

Hind sight is 20/20. Maybe they should not have been in that van, and maybe things have to change, but the fact is that they were in it, no laws or rules were broken, and it was an unfortunate accident.

Having lived in that part of the world, I know that these types of trips are a way of life for these schools. It has gone on for years, and every so often, something bad happens. Highway 11, Route 8, and the 185 from Riviere Du Loup to Edmundston are all dangerous roads in the winter time, and you take them by necessity, not by choice.

Lets not turn this into a witch hunt for responsible parties. I commend the people of Bathurst for standing by Mr. Lord who also suffered a loss. Let us now mourn the loss, fix the problem and move on. My sincere condolences to all of the families involved.

R Boback,
(Now of) Quincy MA.

Was the van equipped with winter tires?

never been out there, i see.. they wouldnt make it out of the parking lot without winter tires.

I lived in Bathurst for a year, and have done the 11,8 and 185 in the winter.. no fun at all.

Worked in caraquet, the 11 runs along the sea sometimes.

On the wrong day, the spray would come up the rocks, freeze, and then drop right on the highway..

5-6 inches of nothing but ice for 100-200 yards.

better than coffee or cocaine in the morning to wake you up.


they probably hit a patch of ice.. its a shame.

Very sensible post.

Be sure to say 'hi' to my relatives in Dedham!

As I recall NB is the only remaining province in which these vans are not banned for this sort of school use.

This is a truly unfortunate way to confirm the reason for their banning.

I recall deheading a old Ryder cube van up 185 in a blizzard. Empty with worn tires on duals was an experience----I guess that's why they call us professionals.....slalloming up those hills and curves. Once on 20 west (snow-packed and slippery) I established that 60k was just fine when a Voyager bus went past doing warp chicken. I proceeded at my pace and 50k later observed him in the comedian backwards.......

Dedicated school busses are better. The Canadian Standards school buses are in principle armoured vehicles. I not impressed with the cube-van size but the full sized buses are extremely stable and can withstand collisions well.

I agree that there are much better options than the 15 passenger vans, but I've seen those options fail also. Remember the tour bus that left several American kids dead near Susex NB a few years back. That was a full sized Voyageur type bus. On the 185, there have been several accidents where carloads of "team members" going to or coming back from a tourny ended up as hood ornaments on a semi (sorry to be graphic, but when a semi hits a personal vehicule, it wins, all the time, no question about it.)

This van was T-boned by the semi. If it were a school bus, it would have been probably sliced into two pieces or wrapped around the front of the truck like a piece of paper.

Most school buses are nothing but dump truck frames with a bus style body. No seat belts, or restraints. Also, the need for a transport for the 10 to 25 person crowd is important. A 50 person school bus is not a very efficient way to transport a basketball team of 15 players and staff. Not to mention that the driver needs a special license to operate it.

Bathurst, as well as many small towns that are located at a distance from other urban areas are always at a disadvantage in the fact that most competitions require they travel.

The New Brunswick government has had a fairly active program to improve the roads all around the provice, starting with the 2 as well as the roads from St. Leonard to Campbelton, and Campbelton to Bathurst. The 8 and 11 are sadly enough the nicer roads at the moment.

Lets just hope that a little more pressure gets put on the government to finish that road work, and lets hope that we never see another tragedy like this.

klaatu62


You don't know much about school buses do you?

The main structural member of a school bus is it's floor. It is channel sections laid crossway and spot welded together. Each channel is clamped individually to the frame with at least 4 clips. This renders the floor and frame to be in practice one assembly. The body and frame are one unit.

The body above the floor is basically channel hoops with an inner and outer skin. On the exterior are many channel side guard beams.
klaatu62


The mass versus the structural nature of the bus would make this impossible. School busses are in principle armoured vehicles---they are built to resist collapse or penetration.

klaatu62


Allegedly controversial....some US states are installing restraints in full sized buses while others who earlier adopted them are removing them.

klaatu62


Having a qualified driver is always a good idea....a professional versus an amateur.

The issue of seatbelts in school buses keeps coming up. I understand drivers are concerned about being able to get all of the kids out of one in an emergency.

Such a tragedy. I have driven vans full of kids, not even that big, but they are pigs to drive, so susceptible to crosswinds and any slight deviation in the road surface, etc. Such a terrible tragedy.

It was indeed terrible.

The seatbelt/school bus issue isn't as simple as the media make it out to be. The point three raises is but one of many.

The reason school buses don't have seat belts is because, as counter-intuitive as it sounds, kids are safer without them in the school bus.

Xerxes


Indeed.

Just like klaatu62 post about school buses exposing ignorance, does not make him a stupid person....just uninformed. Most of the population has no idea the care with which school buses are designed and built.

A few years past, a movement was afoot when some mother realized the fuel tank was outside the frame behind the step door. Ignorant of the fact that a Canadian standards school bus fuel tank in enclosed in a very comprehensive safety cage-----she went merrily on her way and was thoroughly dismayed when the Minister in charge dismissed her complaint as baseless.

Against collisions with cars, SB rely on greater mass and size. Against large vehicles the bus is structurally designed to resist collapse or intrusion. In one test a bus was parked against a concrete wall and a D9 (50+ tons) dozer going 5mph was driven into the rear. It only made the bus 3 ft shorter with most of the shrinkage ahead of the window.

I recovered a wrecked SC from Rochester which had been center-punched by a high speed fire engine....it had intruded 6 in. The bus drove like a terrier dog. At the Thomas Woodstock plant the body was removed---the frame straightened and a new body installed (1 year old bus).

The rear escape door was jammed but the ceiling indicated the overhead escape hatches had been used-----the bus ended on it's side. Only a few bloody finger prints near the hatches. Apparently all the occupants of the fully loaded bus walked away.

Apparently New York state, Vermont, New hampshire, maine and New Jersey-----specify Candian Standards on school buses. If a US SC has a flat black hood it is a CS bus. Some flat yellow hoods are also CS buses as well. All "head start" buses in the US are canadian built to canadian standards.

For those who are interested, the link is to the CSC site where it has a blurb on seatbelts on school buses.

Canada Safety Council - Seat-belts on Scholl Buses?