[Newsbot]

Title: West Bank settlement freeze ends
Category: Political
Posted By: wildrosegirl
Date: 2010-09-26 20:25:41

[gonavy47]

The "Never-Ending Story" continues...

[andyt]

I don't understand how the Israelis can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Palestinian land. Well I understand it, but I call bullshit.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

I don't understand how the Israelis can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Palestinian land. Well I understand it, but I call bullshit.

And I don't understand how the Arabs can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Israeli land.

Diplomatic recognition of Israel and acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist would be a good step towards peace. Look at Egypt, they did all of the above and got back land they lost in wars they started and they also enjoy peace and trade with Israel now.

Hamas and etc. could easily follow suit.

[gonavy47]

There will be peace in the Middle East, when a manned mission lands on the surface of the sun.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

I don't understand how the Israelis can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Palestinian land. Well I understand it, but I call bullshit.

And I don't understand how the Arabs can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Israeli land.

Diplomatic recognition of Israel and acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist would be a good step towards peace. Look at Egypt, they did all of the above and got back land they lost in wars they started and they also enjoy peace and trade with Israel now.

Hamas and etc. could easily follow suit.

Absolutely - both sides need to recognize each other's right to exist, neither side has done so, but prefers to squeal like stuck pigs about the other side. A pox on both their houses, really.

[martin14]

Israel has full recognition of Egypt and Jordan.

The other countries need to step up, or navy's prediction will come true.

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

Israel has full recognition of Egypt and Jordan.

The other countries need to step up, or navy's prediction will come true.

Israel needs to recognize the Palestinian state, otherwise everything else is just hand waving. And the only "country" that needs to recognize Israel is Palstine. What Saudi Arabia does is between them and Israel, has nothing to do with Palestine.

[martin14]

uh huh, and is it ok for the Israelis to recognize the Islamic state of Palestine,
as called for by both Mahmoud Abbas and Ismail Haniye ?


Good start, dont you think ?

[andyt]

martin14 martin14:

uh huh, and is it ok for the Israelis to recognize the Islamic state of Palestine,
as called for by both Mahmoud Abbas and Ismail Haniye ?


Good start, dont you think ?

Yes. Are you saying they have already done so? Or are you saying they shouldn't? Just as Israel is asking the Palestinians to recognize the Jewish state of Israel.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Israel needs to recognize the Palestinian state, otherwise everything else is just hand waving. And the only "country" that needs to recognize Israel is Palstine. What Saudi Arabia does is between them and Israel, has nothing to do with Palestine.

Which utterly ignores the political dynamics of the region. Religion aside from the topic, the regional tribalism lends itself to proxy wars in abundance. Example: Jordan may not have a war with SA, but Yemen does and if Jordan has an axe to grind with SA they fund the Yemenis.

Same goes with Israel and the Israelis know it. While the treaties may be one country at a time, the truth of any actula peace over there is either all of them recognize Israel and desire peace or none of them may as well.

Bear in mind, I am not castng this as a Jew vs. Muslim thing, it is not. It's just how the regional tribalism works is all. The Arabs do this crap to each other all the time so it's not like it's a secret how they roll.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Israel needs to recognize the Palestinian state, otherwise everything else is just hand waving. And the only "country" that needs to recognize Israel is Palstine. What Saudi Arabia does is between them and Israel, has nothing to do with Palestine.

Which utterly ignores the political dynamics of the region. Religion aside from the topic, the regional tribalism lends itself to proxy wars in abundance. Example: Jordan may not have a war with SA, but Yemen does and if Jordan has an axe to grind with SA they fund the Yemenis.

Same goes with Israel and the Israelis know it. While the treaties may be one country at a time, the truth of any actula peace over there is either all of them recognize Israel and desire peace or none of them may as well.

Bear in mind, I am not castng this as a Jew vs. Muslim thing, it is not. It's just how the regional tribalism works is all. The Arabs do this crap to each other all the time so it's not like it's a secret how they roll.

I know it's a complicated issue Bart. But sometimes you've got to shit or get off the pot. Israel needs to make peace with Palestine, they both need to recognize each other, and Israel needs to absolute stop all settlement activity. Doing so will not at all make them weaker, or more subject to other Arab states attacks. Plus Israel has the US to back it up, should it ever need it. And I would support that backing 100% if Israel wasn't pursuing a Lebensraum policy.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

I know it's a complicated issue Bart. But sometimes you've got to shit or get off the pot. Israel needs to make peace with Palestine, they both need to recognize each other, and Israel needs to absolute stop all settlement activity. Doing so will not at all make them weaker, or more subject to other Arab states attacks. Plus Israel has the US to back it up, should it ever need it. And I would support that backing 100% if Israel wasn't pursuing a Lebensraum policy.

Bill Clinton, in one of his shining moments (I mean that), got the Israelis to offer the Palestinians 95% of the land they wanted and 100% of the other concessions they wanted and Yasser Arafat said no. The Oslo Accords, the one thing that did make it to the table, was signed and then essentially failed because of repeated Arab violations and the fact that half the Palestinians didn't want peace with Israel.

Sorry, but it's Palestine's turn to show that they're serious. Israel tried and got rebuffed and there's no point in giving anything to the Palestinians when they offer nothing in return.

[andyt]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

I know it's a complicated issue Bart. But sometimes you've got to shit or get off the pot. Israel needs to make peace with Palestine, they both need to recognize each other, and Israel needs to absolute stop all settlement activity. Doing so will not at all make them weaker, or more subject to other Arab states attacks. Plus Israel has the US to back it up, should it ever need it. And I would support that backing 100% if Israel wasn't pursuing a Lebensraum policy.

Bill Clinton, in one of his shining moments (I mean that), got the Israelis to offer the Palestinians 95% of the land they wanted and 100% of the other concessions they wanted and Yasser Arafat said no. The Oslo Accords, the one thing that did make it to the table, was signed and then essentially failed because of repeated Arab violations and the fact that half the Palestinians didn't want peace with Israel.

Sorry, but it's Palestine's turn to show that they're serious. Israel tried and got rebuffed and there's no point in giving anything to the Palestinians when they offer nothing in return.

Yep, Arafat fucked up. But as long as the Israelis continue to take land, they don't look serious at all - they're never going to give that back, the settlers would flip out. I have no problem with the Israeli military occupying Palestine as long as there's no peace. Isreal has the right to defend itself. But settlers is a whole different ballgame.

Some of the Israelis weren't too happy about Oslo either, as you'll recall. And those same Israelis are the ones wagging the dog.

Gotta do something about Jerusalem - take it away from both Israel and Palestine. I say give it to the Dalai Lama.

[GreenTiger]

andyt andyt:

I don't understand how the Israelis can claim to want peace if they're trying to take over all the Palestinian land. Well I understand it, but I call bullshit.