[Newsbot]

Title: Leaked internal report warns of Canada's declining world influence
Category: Political
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2015-09-28 10:02:21
Canadian

[andyt]

Instead of playing honest broker, we've tried to play tough guy with our nerf gun military. Last time we spent 2 percent GDP was under Trudeau Sr. If we want to throw our weight around, Harper should fund the military properly. Even then tho, just how much weight would we ever have to throw around?

See the post "Canada's patched up military."

[BartSimpson]

Canada's influence over Canada is declining, too.

I saw a program on a Canadian survey of the sea floor off King William Island and the main ship you folks used was a Russian government vessel.

That doesn't bode well because the data that was gathered was absolutely passed to the Russian Navy for their submariners to use in the future.

[desertdude]

Hate to break it to you guys, but Canada never really had any global influence in the first place. And that's part of what makes it great. Global perception is a well to do country that minds it own business and not try to act the tough guy and bully around others.

Until recently that is then it went coat tail riding on Bush's war on terror and got mixed up in Afghanistan. And of recent its blind support of Israel has also cone to light.

Other than that global perception is favorable, but no real political clout whatsoever in the global arena.

[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

Hate to break it to you guys, but Canada never really had any global influence in the first place.

^^this.

I don't know where the delusion cam from that Canada matters in the world.

We punched above our weight in the wars, and never even got a seat at the table for the sacrifice.
Nor Korea, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan.

Ummm, I wouldn't bring up Rwanda here.

The 'peacekeeping' blah blah seems to focus on Cyprus; and

As of 31 May 2012, the total strength (military personnel and civilian police) of UNFICYP is 926 individuals. The 858 military personnel are from Argentina, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Croatia, Hungary, Paraguay, Peru, Serbia,[4] Slovakia and the United Kingdom.[5]

I guess it's another 'we are not Americans' myth that got out of hand.


As a simple example, the region around Milan has more than 7 million people, it is the
2nd most densely populated part of Europe.

The consulate we had closed several years ago, not replaced.


Sorry folks.

[BartSimpson]

martin14 martin14:

The consulate we had (in Milan) closed several years ago, not replaced.

Countries generally place consulates where they have citizens who need those services or in places where the country has interests.

I'm guessing not a lot of Canadians live in Milan and it's probably a safe bet that Canada has few business interests there, either.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I'm guessing not a lot of Canadians live in Milan and it's probably a safe bet that Canada has few business interests there, either.

Both true, but it's maybe a chicken and egg thing.

There is no embassy in Slovakia, either. Stuff is done either in Prague or Vienna.
We had a discussion several years ago with a group of Senators and wives on
a 'fact finding' holiday.

I tried to put forth the argument of which businesses would come to a country with no Canadian embassy.
Didn't work, there is still no embassy.

[BartSimpson]

Also, the Milan consulate is still listed at active on an official site:

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/it ... x?lang=eng

[Thanos]

Gotta agree with DD. Those blue helmets and other photo-ops were strictly for domestic feel-good politics inside of Canada. Other countries in peril either went to the US (or the Soviets if they were on the other side of the spectrum) or appealed to the UN. Canada might have been part of various UN efforts, and even led a couple of them, but overall we were usually a part of an aid effort and not the go-to country that others came to first for assistance. That "Canada is the indispensable nation" for diplomatic or disaster help is kind of an illusion, something blown way out of proportion to the size of our role in various things, that was used by Canadian politicians and the generally anti-military media for slapping each other on the back. Hey, look what we did! Aren't we super nice for doing something like that!

[bootlegga]

martin14 martin14:

desertdude desertdude:

Hate to break it to you guys, but Canada never really had any global influence in the first place.

^^this.

I don't know where the delusion cam from that Canada matters in the world.

It comes from the 1950s and 60s when Canada really did matter.

Back then, we spent a fortune on defence (3% of GDP or thereabouts) and foreign aid ($1 billion on the Columbo Plan back when $1 billion was still real money). We had a division in Europe, 12 fighter squadrons and handed out division-sized sets of army equipment to our NATO allies (2 to the Dutch and 1 to the Belgians IIRC).

We also mattered economically because Europe and Asia had been burnt to the ground and along with the Americans, had the only untouched factories in operation.

But then the 60s ended and the Pearson/St. Laurent Liberals who lived through WW2 started retiring and were replaced by Trudeau's peaceniks. That was when our influence really began to decline, when we started focussing on the UN instead of NATO and NORAD. Defence spending plummeted and our capabilities shrunk and ALL of our allies noticed. Even foreign aid fell by the wayside as we became preoccupied with domestic issues.

The death knell was in the early 90s when Mulroney killed his own White Paper and it was never properly replaced by Chretien, who brought the last few troops and planes home from Europe after the Cold War ended, so we could spend the 'peace dividend' on social programs - which most Canadians had zero problems with.

Most Canadians still feel the same way, which is why nobody cares that the SAR fleet is falling apart, we have to rent AOR support from Spain and Chile and have only one destroyer left in the Navy.

As I've said many times before, the only people to blame in the downfall of our influence and global presence are Canadians themselves, because they refuse to hold politician's feet to the fire on this issue.

[Thanos]

Yeah, it's a collective guilt thing on all Canadians. Even if any political party ever had the balls to follow through on rebuilding the military for modern assignments and missions odds are the electorate would be so horrified at the amount it would cost that they'd be voted out. Fixing the Canadian military would probably be the easiest way to lose an election. That's why we're going to be dependent on the US for continental defense forever.