[DerbyX]

Gunnair Gunnair:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Out of curiosity - what is your stance on Darfur?

Whats yours?

I think there is cause to be in there for peacemaking and potentially regime changing.

You?

Peacemaking? If by that you mean picking one side to blame then attacking them then no.

As with almost all the conflicts in Africa there is plenty of blame to go around.

Theh idea is to stop the fighting not to simply bring more violence.

[EyeBrock]

UN Peacekeeping is bollocks.
The major contributors are third world nations with ineffective and corrupt militaries. IE Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Ghana, need I go on? These are nations firmly in the Third world.

Pakistan is #2 in contributing troops to the UN and #1 in providing troops for the Taliban.

Remember Taliban = bad.

The Taliban killed two more of our guys yesterday. And you wonder why we warriors roll our collective eyes at the UN ‘peacekeepers’.

For a mission that was effective and productive, you can check out what the British did in Sierra Leone in 2000.
A small force of Royal Marines and Para’s, supported by RN Harriers came to rescue 500 useless Third World UN troops taken hostage by armed thugs.

Then let’s look at Romeo Dallaire and his disgraceful leadership (or lack of ) in Rwanda. Do you think Canadians aspire to be led in battle by Bangladeshi Generals? That’s what the UN Peacekeeping missions have become.

I’d like you to find me a serving soldier who believes that the UN has an effective military response to places like Darfur or supports actions in Rwanda, or for that matter any serving Canadian soldier who thinks the UN peacekeepers are good at anything besides raping the local chicks in whichever country they are in.

[Gunnair]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Gunnair Gunnair:

DerbyX DerbyX:

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0802/toilet.html
Whats yours?

I think there is cause to be in there for peacemaking and potentially regime changing.

You?

Peacemaking? If by that you mean picking one side to blame then attacking them then no.

As with almost all the conflicts in Africa there is plenty of blame to go around.

Theh idea is to stop the fighting not to simply bring more violence.

How would propose that? The Sudanese military and Janjaweed have the power, and they make life hell for the tribes who are not, and they aren't likely keen to release that power. So, unless you take it from them, things won't change much.

What's you plan?

[roger-roger]

They are firing the rockets because they want to attack Israel, having peacekeepers there will not change the fact the Hamas wants to indiscrimately kill Israelies.

[martin14]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

It would also be ineffective, how will peacekeeprs stop the Hamas from firing rockets?

it wouldnt, the rockets can clear any buffer zone.
And I've heard on tv the rockets they have now have an even longer range
than before.

It is not time for peacekeepers in Gaza. West Bank maybe, at some point.
Depends on how this episode falls out.

[DerbyX]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

They are firing the rockets because they want to attack Israel, having peacekeepers there will not change the fact the Hamas wants to indiscrimately kill Israelies.

They are firing at them in revenge for Israeli acts of violence against them which was revenge for ....

The current solution isn't working is it?

[EyeBrock]

Neither is sitting there doing sweet FA while thugs kill innocent people.

The Jews tried the peaceful approach before. Cowering to armed thugs didn't work then.

[CommanderSock]

Both entities are guilty. Hamas militants are responsible for constantly pushing their screwed up ideology on the uneducated masses. The uneducated masses are poor because Israel has an iron grip on Palestine. Palestine cannot effectively collect taxes, open schools, hospitals, operate sanitation and water services without Israel giving it the "ok". Palestinians are angry, poor, uneducated. It is effectively apartheid.

Blacks in South Africa made life for whites and themselves incredibly miserable (Policy of 'non governance' by the ANC). Hamas is flawed in attempting to imitate this strategy with a sprinkle of Islamic fanaticism, in the false belief that Israel will capitulate like South Africa's white government did. This will never happen, as Palestinians have very little support from the Arab world leaders, who are scared shitless of trying to help Palestinians. Even something small as Egypt opening its borders for humanitarian Aid would be met with massive condemnation from the West.

Hamas has to stop firing missiles into Israel, or be prepared for an all armed conflict. At this point, this is turning into a tune we have heard before (sample set perhaps?).

From the point of view of Israel, the choice is clear. Create a Palestinian state and let the Palestinians govern themselves, or annex Palestine and loose its status as a Jewish state, (religious dilution).

From Palestinian perspective the choice is not so clear. Hamas has several options. It can cease to encourage its militants from lobbing rockets at Israeli civilians, declare a cease fire, recognize Israel and issue an ultimatum for its independence + the Gaza strip.
It can take another option, something that Africans would do, and has worked rather effectively for them; it can arm its civilians with the smuggled Arms it receives from Hezbollah and push to create a shotgun army of sorts, which will fight against Israel to the last drop of blood based on ideology, and the fact the US is too financially constrained to support a long war. The 2nd option is more feasible in the current climate, but will bring nothing good in the long term.

[martin14]

The ultimate solution may be too much for many people to handle,
and therefore not be implemented.

This could continue for another 60 years without any trouble at all.

[DerbyX]

Gunnair Gunnair:

How would propose that? The Sudanese military and Janjaweed have the power, and they make life hell for the tribes who are not, and they aren't likely keen to release that power. So, unless you take it from them, things won't change much.

What's your plan?

Not to bring yet more violence ito the region.

We don't just up and invade because thats just using the military in exactly the same way as those we oppose.

[Gunnair]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Gunnair Gunnair:

How would propose that? The Sudanese military and Janjaweed have the power, and they make life hell for the tribes who are not, and they aren't likely keen to release that power. So, unless you take it from them, things won't change much.

What's your plan?

Not to bring yet more violence ito the region.

We don't just up and invade because thats just using the military in exactly the same way as those we oppose.

What's your plan?

[DerbyX]

Gunnair Gunnair:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Gunnair Gunnair:

How would propose that? The Sudanese military and Janjaweed have the power, and they make life hell for the tribes who are not, and they aren't likely keen to release that power. So, unless you take it from them, things won't change much.

What's your plan?

Not to bring yet more violence ito the region.

We don't just up and invade because thats just using the military in exactly the same way as those we oppose.

What's your plan?

You want me to come up with a detailed point by point plan to end all violence in the region in a few minutes.

Sorry but I've aready been asked to cure cancer.

Again, I'll reiterate that simply seding in the troops to target and attack one side won't do anything but simply bring yet more violence into the region.

We simply can't stop every war or conflict on the planet. This is a sudan civil war where hundreads of thousands of civilians are being killed.

Our wars did the same thing.

Given that it was famine and drought that was the proverbial match in fireworks factory I think a large scale program sending food and water to anybody who wants it might help. Make both sides know we aren't their to attack anybody but are there trying to bring famine relief for both sides is a neccessary first step.

[CommanderSock]

$1:

You want me to come up with a detailed point by point plan to end all violence in the region in a few minutes.

Sorry but I've aready been asked to cure cancer.

Again, I'll reiterate that simply seding in the troops to target and attack one side won't do anything but simply bring yet more violence into the region.

We simply can't stop every war or conflict on the planet. This is a sudan civil war where hundreads of thousands of civilians are being killed.

Our wars did the same thing.

Given that it was famine and drought that was the proverbial match in fireworks factory I think a large scale program sending food and water to anybody who wants it might help. Make both sides know we aren't their to attack anybody but are there trying to bring famine relief for both sides is a neccessary first step.

Agreed. Our constant meddling in world affairs has caused far more harm than good. Israel and Palestine are still 1 country. As far as this conflict is concerned, this is a civil war between two ethnic groups. It is dangerous to blindly pick sides.

[EyeBrock]

Er, I pick the democracy over the corrupt sexist, racist, homophobic Arabs.

[martin14]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Agreed. Our constant meddling in world affairs has caused far more harm than good. Israel and Palestine are still 1 country. As far as this conflict is concerned, this is a civil war between two ethnic groups. It is dangerous to blindly pick sides.

I agree, Sudan is an internal, ethnic, racial and religous problem.

But aren't we supposed to object to governments killing their own civilians ?