[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

Those of us in the centre

[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

They may "Terrorists in their hearts" according to you because apparently all of a sudden you have become clairvoyant, but regardless as the UK learned eventually with the case of the IRA they cannot choose who and who not to talk to. But all of this is just what about-ery and deflection from the topic at hand.

There is no deflection here.

I posted I didn't believe the PA could do anything with the ICC,

they have no jurisdiction.


If you can prove otherwise, please do.


If not, then .....

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

martin14 martin14:

Hamas, the PA and the PLO are in their heart terrorist groups.

While we're on the topic of history lessons....

You are the LAST person to say anything about history,
especially because you don't know any it.

$1:

The Irgun (Hebrew: אִרְגּוּן‎) (

Good, being them in front of the ICC..

$1:

Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defence Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war.
...
The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party. Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.

By extension of your same logic, Likud and the IDF are in their heart terrorist groups.

[martin14]

I'm sure you think so.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

I'm sure you think so.

I don't. You do, if you believe the Palestinian Authority is a terrorist group for those same reasons.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

martin14 martin14:

I'm sure you think so.

I don't. You do, if you believe the Palestinian Authority is a terrorist group for those same reasons.

Wow, that dope you smoke must be really good.


And what about Hamas ? They're not terrorists either I guess.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

martin14 martin14:

I'm sure you think so.

I don't. You do, if you believe the Palestinian Authority is a terrorist group for those same reasons.

Wow, that dope you smoke must be really good.


And what about Hamas ? They're not terrorists either I guess.

You claimed the Palestinian Authority was in their heart a terrorist organization. Explain how they are, but Likud is not please.

[Curtman]

Interesting...

"More settler than the settlers": Canada's UN policy and Israel

$1:

Even before Canada officially cast its "no" vote at the United Nations on Thursday, Palestinians knew which way the Canadian wind would blow. At the gates of Canada's heavily guarded "embassy" in Ramallah the day before the vote, protesters carried signs of Prime Minister Stephen Harper emblazoned with a dogs snout and the dismissive slogan, "this dog doesn't hunt".

The next day in New York, Canada joined Israel, the US, the Czech Republic, Panama and four small countries in the Pacific Islands - including Nauru, population 10,000 - in voting against a General Assembly resolution granting Palestinians Non-Member Observer State status. The final tally was 138 to 9 in favour.

Before the vote, analyst Mouin Rabbani aptly characterised the antagonists: "Those openly opposing this vote can easily be counted on the fingers of an amputated hand: Israel; the United States, which is more pro-Israel than Israel itself; Canada, which is more pro-Israel than even the United States."

Indeed, the very next day Canada voted against six more resolutions on Palestinian rights that were adopted, including one on the "peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine" (163-6).

Canada opposing resolutions dealing with Palestinian rights is not new, nor is it the effect of a particular government or another. Opposing such resolutions has been a core Canadian diplomatic tactic since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948 - by both Liberal and Conservative governments.

In the principal study of Canada's role in the creation of the State of Israel, historian David Bercuson described diplomat Lester Pearson - who chaired the pivotal United Nations Special Committee on Palestine - as playing "a unique and crucial role at the UN... Partition might not have been adopted without Pearson's efforts".

In 1974, following Yasser Arafat's landmark "the gun and the olive branch" speech at the UN, the Liberal government of Pierre Trudeau opposed a resolution adopted by the General Assembly granting Palestinians similar observer status under the Palestine Liberation Organisation.

More recently, the Liberal government in 2004 pointedly abstained from a resolution condemning Israel's massive separation wall (150-6) despite acknowledging it violated international law.

While the voting pattern is not new, the Harper government has certainly cranked up the rhetoric, particularly under the current foreign minister, John Baird, who presents himself as far more of a sycophant than a statesman.

"One thing John Baird doesn't do is diplomatic nuance," said one Canadian political journal.

Baird describes his relationship with Israel as "kinship" and he hailed Israel as "breathtaking" and "simply a miracle to behold" at a speech to the Jewish National Fund on the sixth day of last month's Gaza-Israel battle.

Earlier this year, the Jerusalem Post led its coverage of Baird's visit to Israel with an anecdote from a magazine interview with the foreign minister. "If you weren't in politics, what would you want to be doing?"

"Likely working on a kibbutz in Israel," answered Baird.

The Post described Canada as "the gold standard" of support for Israel. "There is not a government on the planet today more supportive of Israel than Harper's Canada."

Baird repeats this phrase at every opportunity. "I think the US is a good friend, too. I like to think we are better - a stronger friend."

During the visit, Israel Hayom, Israel's largest circulation daily newspaper, said: "When he discusses the Palestinian issue, Baird sounds like he could have voted in this week's Likud primaries."

Likudniks agree. At a reception for Baird before departing Israel, Likud Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz mocked in jest, "I think Canada's an even better friend of Israel than we are."

Netanyahu singled out the prime minister at the UN in September. "Same heart and same values," said Netanyahu of Harper.

After Thursday's vote, Saeb Erekat, the most conciliatory of Palestinian politicians in regard to Israel, said Canada was being "more settler than the [Israeli] settlers".

Canada's diplomatic support for Israel is not limited to the United Nations. In September, Canada recalled its diplomats and shuttered its Tehran embassy, declaring it unsafe. The move prompted former CBC and AJE chief, Tony Burman, to quip: "Canada appears to have a new foreign minister. His name is Benjamin Netanyahu."

But the implications of Canada's disposition are potentially deeper than diplomatic verbiage. Classified defence department documents obtained by the Canadian Press detailed a 2011 visit to Israel during which Defence Minister Peter MacKay told Israeli army chief of staff Gabi Ashkenazi, "a threat to Israel is a threat to Canada".

The defence minister's phrasing was a slightly toned down version of a provocative statement made earlier by former junior foreign affairs minister, Peter Kent, that "an attack on Israel would be considered an attack on Canada". The minister described the statement as a paraphrasing of the prime minister's policy.

The consequences of the Harper government's unconditional fawning of Israel have begun to surface. Perhaps most prominently, this one-sided approach played a central role in Canada being denied an elected seat on the United Nations Security Council - for the first time ever.

After 65 years of denying basic rights of the Palestinians, Israel's isolation on the world stage is starker than ever. Both Harper and Baird have acknowledged such. The prime minister calls supporting Israel "a difficult position" internationally, while Baird describes the policy as "not an electoral winner" in Canada either.

Still, this government doesn't seem to mind the consequences; on the contrary, they have doubled-down.

Jon Elmer is a Canadian journalist based in the Middle East since 2003, primarily in the West Bank and Gaza.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

martin14 martin14:

And what about Hamas ? They're not terrorists either I guess.

You claimed the Palestinian Authority was in their heart a terrorist organization. Explain how they are, but Likud is not please.

DODGE !!!

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

martin14 martin14:

And what about Hamas ? They're not terrorists either I guess.

You claimed the Palestinian Authority was in their heart a terrorist organization. Explain how they are, but Likud is not please.

DODGE !!!

It is not a dodge. You made a claim, and now you refuse to comment on it. You're dodging because you're wrong.

[martin14]

Sorry Curtie, you first.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Sorry Curtie, you first.

$1:

The United States, Canada, the European Union, and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organization, while Arab nations, Iran, Russia, and Turkey do not.

These days everyone's a terrorist. It's what you call people who you don't agree with.

When I read things like this:

Hamas gunmen execute six ‘Israeli spies’ as Netanyahu hints at cease-fire

$1:

Witnesses say masked gunmen have publicly killed six suspected collaborators with Israel at a busy Gaza City intersection.

The Hamas military wing claimed responsibility.

Witnesses said the six men were pulled out of a van Tuesday, forced to lie face down on the street and then shot dead.

I think they are definitely terrorists.

Your turn. The question is about the Palestinian Authority. Why do you think they are terrorists, but Likud is not?

[martin14]

I said 'in their hearts'.


Herut, the offshoot of Irgun, never held power in Israel, unlike Hamas and the PA.

They were dismantled in 1973, when they merged with other parties to make Likud.


That's 40 years ago.


I always laugh at your idea of history Curt, because you truly
have no idea.
You just swallow whatever lefty/Islamic/antiJoooo$ blog
tries to feed you.



When the PA and Hamas have 40 years of no terrorism, no attacks,
a peace deal, etc. etc.
then I might think different.


Till then, I have to make dinner.

[commanderkai]

Curtman Curtman:

You and GOMC over there make a good team.

Who's GOMC?

$1:

Your argument is they should support Israeli settlement expansion,

More like their statements against "settlement expansion" is completely hypocritical, and Israel will not give a shit.

$1:

the checkpoints, air raids in residential areas,

Yeah, because Palestinian terrorist groups certainly don't operate from residential areas, like firing rockets that attack Israelis. Certainly not...

Oh...wait.

Seriously, don't be a moron. Israel doesn't just blast away at residential neighborhoods for no reason. If Israel wanted Gaza and the West Bank leveled, they could have easily done so by now. Don't bring this up again or I'll go Sisko on your ass.

$1:

etc, like Canada does or else they are hypocrites? That's basically it in a nutshell?

The world is hypocritical. This isn't anything new. As Shep said, we don't see Turkey, Russia, China, Morocco, etc etc etc returning land they conquered and annexed, let alone stopping their development of said lands. It's just rather interesting that leftists only ever bring up Israel.

[desertdude]

martin14 martin14:

There is no deflection here.

I posted I didn't believe the PA could do anything with the ICC,

they have no jurisdiction.


If you can prove otherwise, please do.


If not, then .....

True it cannot implement measures like sanctions or military action or anything close to it as it stands now, but it does put a lot of diplomatic pressure on Israel and its already failing image on the global stage. It would be another diplomatic victory for the PA and if for some reason US for a change does not Veto any recommendations the ICC might make, there actually could be measures taken against Israel, although far fetched as long as the US is Israel's bitch but I am thinking there only so much shit even the US can take from Israel before they get tired of it, like snubbing them by refusing the F35 for freezing the settlements deal and now the announcement of 3000 new announcements and E1 making the US like a complete idiot for backing Israel in the No vote.

And lets not try to make it not big deal again like the UN vote, because if it wasn't such a big deal. Israel and its lackies wouldn't be in such panty twist over it.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 0048b7.891

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Save it dude, for someone who cares, I heard you barking about this a million times before and its gotten to the point that its not even funny anymore