[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Marijuana gives most people a pleasant "buzz" or high, while others develop paranoia and sometimes psychosis, involving a frightening break from reality, heightened anxiety and hallucinations - symptoms of schizophrenia.

INteresting. And are there any negative effects?

[Scape]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape, if anyone is being "coy" it's you. "Remove profit and the crime goes with it" isn't the solution nor is it that simple.

Forgive me. I was trying to be blunt for the sake of simplicity of argument and it came across as crass. That was my clumsiness. Let's try it at another angle: what contraband out there that is commercial available in a comparative format is offered at a lower price currently? I can't think of any but if you could site a few example then I could see what you are saying here.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

IMO, there's not a hope in hell that the government is going to get into the weed business and offer the product at all-time low prices.

Legalize it so it can be supervised is a responsible approach from a government perspective. When it is not legal you can't tax it and that is a lot of revenue lost. Also, being illegal drives up the price driving up gun violence, b&e's gangs etc. Lastly, it is effective so it should be used in the treatment of palliative and the chronically ill. Government run will regulate it so there is no additives which will save lives.

In conclusion: We will be gaining a revenue source, lowering the prison population, adding an effective pain therapy that we control and regulate which will not require a patent made at a price much cheaper then current pharmaceutical equivalents and it is not toxic. At the same time driving down the influence of gangs in society.

[Hyack]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I was thinking the same thing. I guess when you feel strongly about something, rationality goes out the window for the best of us. It reminds me of the cop who came to our school in Grade 7 and told the guys that science had shown that pot would make you grow tits.

I wonder if they told the girls that?

Probably told the girls they would grow hair on their chests....

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

That made me laugh a little...

People aren't going to run out and buy hydroponic equipment on mass. People won't want the hydro costs, the stink and the room taken up for weed.

It'll end up being made by private industry and sold through various outlets that already sell booze or wine and taxed like crazy.

I have known (and to an extent, still know) people who grew their own weed. As PA9 points out, it's not a big production or expense if you're just growing it for personal use, or even you're growing it to sell small amounts. All you need is a few plants. I knew people who grew in their back yard, and I knew others who grew indoors. Not one grew hydroponically. It's not much different than growing your own tomatoes or cucumbers. I imagine that if pot were legal, most pot smokers would grow their own and would have maybe 5 or 6 plants at most on the go at any time.

[Curtman]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It reminds me of the cop who came to our school in Grade 7 and told the guys that science had shown that pot would make you grow tits.

I wonder if they told the girls that?

In 7th grade the cop at our school told us if we bought pot, it would probably be mixed with fibre-glass insulation and it would kill us.

Imagine this



Plus this



I hope they've come up with better lies these days. It'll rot your iPad or something.

[CanadianJeff]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

You pride yourself on being scientific. Do you really believe people who can say:

$1:

“Dangerous drugs like cannabis kill hundreds of young Australians every year and prevent many others reaching their full potential as sports men through the way that it encourages metrosexual activity“

Don't you think if there was a confirmed case of death by pot overdose the media would be all over it? You swallowed the big one there.

The obvious BS in the article aside, knocking over strawmen is one of my favourite pastimes.

Don't discount the rest of an excellent documentary on the subject because CanadaJeff thinks he has a sure fire excuse to decriminalize. It doesn't have to kill to do harm.

You may have noticed the last paragraph of my post pushing for more research on possible harm before legalization.

Seriously some actual research needs to be done outside of these anti drug clowns to see what the real and legitimate effects are.

[Lemmy]

Curtman Curtman:

Pot should be harvested when the trichomes start to turn from milky to amber. That weed was picked too soon. It hasn't finished yet.

[Curtman]

A few hundred wiki pages link to this image. Good luck editing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/File:ST-3-bud.jpg&limit=500

[OnTheIce]

Scape Scape:

what contraband out there that is commercial available in a comparative format is offered at a lower price currently? I can't think of any but if you could site a few example then I could see what you are saying here.

Cigarettes are sold at a fraction of the cost of their commercial counterparts as are liquor. A carton of bootleg cigs is $18-20 compared to $70-$80 in the retail market.

Same goes for booze. Booze is smuggled into Canada and sold via criminal enterprise to bars, restaurants and individuals. Illegal alcohol is a 800+ million dollar venture in Ontario alone.
http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibilit ... ohol.shtml

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I have known (and to an extent, still know) people who grew their own weed. As PA9 points out, it's not a big production or expense if you're just growing it for personal use, or even you're growing it to sell small amounts. All you need is a few plants. I knew people who grew in their back yard, and I knew others who grew indoors. Not one grew hydroponically. It's not much different than growing your own tomatoes or cucumbers. I imagine that if pot were legal, most pot smokers would grow their own and would have maybe 5 or 6 plants at most on the go at any time.

So why don't people do it more often if it's so easy and inexpensive? Why do people opt to support criminal enterprise by buying it from the guy on the street and not quietly grow their own in the backyard, balcony or basement?

You can't say on one hand that it's so easy for people to grow their own and then say "if pot were legal, most pot smokers would grow their own". That's false. It's speculation at best. I don't buy the notion that "most" pot smokers would run out and get their plants. If it's so easy and inexpensive now, they'd be doing it already.

[Curtman]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape Scape:

what contraband out there that is commercial available in a comparative format is offered at a lower price currently? I can't think of any but if you could site a few example then I could see what you are saying here.

Cigarettes are sold at a fraction of the cost of their commercial counterparts as are liquor. A carton of bootleg cigs is $18-20 compared to $70-$80 in the retail market.

Same goes for booze. Booze is smuggled into Canada and sold via criminal enterprise to bars, restaurants and individuals. Illegal alcohol is a 800+ million dollar venture in Ontario alone.
http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibilit ... ohol.shtml

That 8% is a hell of a lot smaller than the 100% they would have under alcohol prohibition isn't it?

Can you explain again how they will undercut the price, and cause the price to skyrocket?

[OnTheIce]

Curtman Curtman:

That 8% is a hell of a lot smaller than the 100% they would have under alcohol prohibition isn't it?

Sure it is. It's still a multi-billion dollar Canada-wide operation.

Curtman Curtman:

Can you explain again how they will undercut the price, and cause the price to skyrocket?

I've already mentioned it above, but I'll repeat...

In my opinion, private industry will make the product and no doubt, will want a nice profit margin on their product. Secondly, the government will want their cut and will tax the product accordingly. We have insane taxes on cigarettes and booze, this will be no different.

If the public is used to paying $x.xx for a product, private industry knows that and will adjust their prices accordingly. Perhaps it'll be lower than current street value but I'd suspect it'll be high enough to leave room for undercutting by criminal enterprise.

In the end, we have speculation on pricing and effects on crime but we've presented nothing but opinion. No one opinion is more right than another.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Scape Scape:

what contraband out there that is commercial available in a comparative format is offered at a lower price currently? I can't think of any but if you could site a few example then I could see what you are saying here.

Cigarettes are sold at a fraction of the cost of their commercial counterparts as are liquor. A carton of bootleg cigs is $18-20 compared to $70-$80 in the retail market.

Same goes for booze. Booze is smuggled into Canada and sold via criminal enterprise to bars, restaurants and individuals. Illegal alcohol is a 800+ million dollar venture in Ontario alone.
http://www.lcbo.com/socialresponsibilit ... ohol.shtml

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I have known (and to an extent, still know) people who grew their own weed. As PA9 points out, it's not a big production or expense if you're just growing it for personal use, or even you're growing it to sell small amounts. All you need is a few plants. I knew people who grew in their back yard, and I knew others who grew indoors. Not one grew hydroponically. It's not much different than growing your own tomatoes or cucumbers. I imagine that if pot were legal, most pot smokers would grow their own and would have maybe 5 or 6 plants at most on the go at any time.

So why don't people do it more often if it's so easy and inexpensive? Why do people opt to support criminal enterprise by buying it from the guy on the street and not quietly grow their own in the backyard, balcony or basement?

You can't say on one hand that it's so easy for people to grow their own and then say "if pot were legal, most pot smokers would grow their own". That's false. It's speculation at best. I don't buy the notion that "most" pot smokers would run out and get their plants. If it's so easy and inexpensive now, they'd be doing it already.

Duh. Because the penalties for cultivation are MUCH more severe than for simple possession.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

That 8% is a hell of a lot smaller than the 100% they would have under alcohol prohibition isn't it?

Sure it is. It's still a multi-billion dollar Canada-wide operation.

So you think 100% is better than 8%?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Curtman Curtman:

Can you explain again how they will undercut the price, and cause the price to skyrocket?

I've already mentioned it above, but I'll repeat...

In my opinion, private industry will make the product and no doubt, will want a nice profit margin on their product. Secondly, the government will want their cut and will tax the product accordingly. We have insane taxes on cigarettes and booze, this will be no different.

If the public is used to paying $x.xx for a product, private industry knows that and will adjust their prices accordingly. Perhaps it'll be lower than current street value but I'd suspect it'll be high enough to leave room for undercutting by criminal enterprise.

In the end, we have speculation on pricing and effects on crime but we've presented nothing but opinion. No one opinion is more right than another.

criminal enterprise currently has 100% of the production at $200 an ounce. You admit they would drop to 8% production and people have estimated the legal price might be $100 an ounce, so let's say the criminals sell at $50. BC pot industry is estimated at $4billion. 4,000,000,000 x.08 x 50/200 = 80,000,000. That's a reduction of 98% of income from criminal pot. Seems like you're making a good argument to proceed with legalization.

[Unsound]

If it truly is all opinion with no proven facts on either side of the argument, the moral thing to do is go in the direction that allows more freedom rather than less. That is, legalize it.

[andyt]

The facts are that anybody that wants to buy pot can easily do so, including kids, and that gangs make billions a year in selling pot and trading it for guns and hard drugs in the US. 58,000 Canadians were arrested last year for possession. Opinion is that it's hard to see how legalizing can make this situation any worse, and it seems a good bet that it will make it better. The fact is that after say 10 years we find that legalization has made things worse, we can recriminalize it again.