[Brenda]

newfette newfette:

i believe this should be more about tolerance than anything else.

Brenda you say why should you have to listen to it when you don't believe in it? Because you are a good person and you can accept other people's beliefs. Just because a group of people don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't have to be there. it could mean a great deal to someone else, why are their beliefs any less important?

I hear stuff all the time I don't believe in but I choose to ignore it because I understand that not everyone believes the same thing i do. anyone who is graduating from university should have sense enough to be tolerant of other people's beliefs.

I only see this now...

Only God was mentioned in the speech, right? And that is what makes my hairs in my neck rise. You can't exclude everything else. If you choose to mention God (even briefly) you have to mention Allah, Jahweh, and all other gods (or higher powers) too, because there might be people believing in them...

So to me, it would be easier (and more fair to any who doesn't believe in just that one God) to not go the religeous route at all...

[westmanguy]

lol...we've read in English (since Gr. 9 to now):

Of Mice and Men (where the two rednecks, and the mentally challenged guy who sexually assaults the woman...and I didn't like the book...)
In the Heat of the Night (black guy in S.C. solves a crime...)
Animal Farm:

This book is good Mr. Canada...you should read it...may change your views...it examines Communism of the early 1900s (Stalin, Trotsky), but animals represent the historical figures. Not quite done the book, but we're reading it...

[xerxes]

westmanguy westmanguy:

lol...we've read in English (since Gr. 9 to now):

Of Mice and Men (where the two rednecks, and the mentally challenged guy who sexually assaults the woman...and I didn't like the book...)
In the Heat of the Night (black guy in S.C. solves a crime...)
Animal Farm:

This book is good Mr. Canada...you should read it...may change your views...it examines Communism of the early 1900s (Stalin, Trotsky), but animals represent the historical figures. Not quite done the book, but we're reading it...

Really? It's not the longest book ever written you know, it's barely a 100 pages. After the first three chapters I couldn't stop till I was finished.

And yeah, it's a brilliant book. Which is why English teachers have been using it for decades now.

[Tricks]

newfette newfette:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

You do not have to believe in God to study religion, as you do not have to be an athiest to be a scientist, it helps though.

if this was somewhere like MIT then i can see how the argument that it shouldn't be there would exist. but not in this case.

In a Conservative province in a university with a religious studies program i believe it should be there, and the best form of tolerance is those who dont believe in it should just close their ears for the 30 seconds its talked about

A good chunk of schools have religious studies program. Does that mean they all should have this? That's not reason enough to have it. Why should we have to "close our ears?" Isn't that intolerant of our views?

[Tricks]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Tricks Tricks:

Why not? Right now it's being forced unto the students. Albeit in a very small way. The atheist students are left out. Take it out, and no one is left out. It doesn't have to mention faith. There is no reason to have it. As of right now it excludes probably a very large portion of students.

Take it out and it's a deliberate snub of those students who believe. Take it out and you remove a powerful couple of words that say what a hundred would otherwise have to be said about the purpose of higher education. Any atheist with a truly open mind can hear a reference to god and understand the subtext without feelign the need to plug their ears with their fingers and shout "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Or we could just exclude it entirely and say use it for the greater good.

[Tricks]

Brenda Brenda:

newfette newfette:

i believe this should be more about tolerance than anything else.

Brenda you say why should you have to listen to it when you don't believe in it? Because you are a good person and you can accept other people's beliefs. Just because a group of people don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't have to be there. it could mean a great deal to someone else, why are their beliefs any less important?

I hear stuff all the time I don't believe in but I choose to ignore it because I understand that not everyone believes the same thing i do. anyone who is graduating from university should have sense enough to be tolerant of other people's beliefs.

I only see this now...

Only God was mentioned in the speech, right? And that is what makes my hairs in my neck rise. You can't exclude everything else. If you choose to mention God (even briefly) you have to mention Allah, Jahweh, and all other gods (or higher powers) too, because there might be people believing in them...

So to me, it would be easier (and more fair to any who doesn't believe in just that one God) to not go the religeous route at all...

What I was trying to get at, but you put it into words better than I could.

[Tricks]

xerxes xerxes:

westmanguy westmanguy:

lol...we've read in English (since Gr. 9 to now):

Of Mice and Men (where the two rednecks, and the mentally challenged guy who sexually assaults the woman...and I didn't like the book...)
In the Heat of the Night (black guy in S.C. solves a crime...)
Animal Farm:

This book is good Mr. Canada...you should read it...may change your views...it examines Communism of the early 1900s (Stalin, Trotsky), but animals represent the historical figures. Not quite done the book, but we're reading it...

Really? It's not the longest book ever written you know, it's barely a 100 pages. After the first three chapters I couldn't stop till I was finished.

And yeah, it's a brilliant book. Which is why English teachers have been using it for decades now.

Indeed. Fantastic book.

[Yogi]

Tricks Tricks:

[
Or we could just exclude it entirely and say use it for the greater good.

Certainly I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, regardless of how bizarre I may think them to be. However, as Dad used to say, " your rights end where my nose begins"! Or in this case, 'My rights' end where your ears begin. I can understand that athiests would want all reference to God removed from every aspect of their daily lives. This is simpley never going to happen because the majority will rule. That is democracy. Really I think this is just a few 'shit disturbers looking for their 15 mins. of fame'!

I am going to propose a hypothetical question to all the athiests here. Do not anyone 'read anything into this' and take it as a threat. It is not intended in any way as such.

If you knew or even suspected that anothers belief in God was vital to your safety, in fact your very life depended upon THEIR belief in God, would you fuck with that belief or would you be content to 'leave well enough alone'? This could indeed be 'for the greater good'!

[westmanguy]

No, like I love the book, but after every chapter we have to do like 12 questions, so it takes a while to get through.

But yeah, Communism assumes the best in humans, which isn't possible...

Anyways, subject. I'm a little divided, but I think religious traditions like that shouldn't be taken out. Something that's bin around for so long, I mean I've bin in uncomfortable situations (went to a Hindu service where I was respectful), but you can through it fine...

I mean honestly, the next thing is the national anthem, a line in the sand has to be drawn, where we hold on to certain Judeo-Christian references/traditions. It isn't a binding law, so just leave the reference there...

[Zipperfish]

If God wants his name back in the convocation speech, he, if anyone, should be able to make it happen. What's the problem?

[RUEZ]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If God wants his name back in the convocation speech, he, if anyone, should be able to make it happen. What's the problem?

I don't think he cares. More important things in the world to worry about.

[PluggyRug]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

If God wants his name back in the convocation speech, he, if anyone, should be able to make it happen. What's the problem?

That reminds me...I need to put more beer in the fridge.

Asper the eleventh commandment which Moses dropped on his way down from the mountain because his shoes were on fire:- "Thou shalt brew more beer"

[Brenda]

Yogi Yogi:

Certainly I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, regardless of how bizarre I may think them to be. However, as Dad used to say, " your rights end where my nose begins"! Or in this case, 'My rights' end where your ears begin. I can understand that athiests would want all reference to God removed from every aspect of their daily lives. This is simpley never going to happen because the majority will rule. That is democracy. Really I think this is just a few 'shit disturbers looking for their 15 mins. of fame'!

I am going to propose a hypothetical question to all the athiests here. Do not anyone 'read anything into this' and take it as a threat. It is not intended in any way as such.

If you knew or even suspected that anothers belief in God was vital to your safety, in fact your very life depended upon THEIR belief in God, would you fuck with that belief or would you be content to 'leave well enough alone'? This could indeed be 'for the greater good'!

"Atheists" don't want that, some of them do.
Your rights end where my ears (or nose) begin too. Your belief is nothing more or less than my lack of belief in a "higher power" (between " " to make sure I don't exclude any)

In answer to your question, my life does not depend on anybodies belief but mine. And the doctors that have the priveledge to save me

[hurley_108]

Tricks Tricks:

Or we could just exclude it entirely and say use it for the greater good.

Or we could leave it in and tell a few thin-skinned atheists to suck it up.

It's not like the university requires students to attend church every Sunday as a condition of graduation. It's not even like it's an hour-long sermon. It's five words.

Xerxes had as his sig a while back a quote from Thomas Jefferson that's stuck with me:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Well I'm an atheist and it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg to for my neighbor to say there is one God.

[Tricks]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Tricks Tricks:

Or we could just exclude it entirely and say use it for the greater good.

Or we could leave it in and tell a few thin-skinned atheists to suck it up.

It's not like the university requires students to attend church every Sunday as a condition of graduation. It's not even like it's an hour-long sermon. It's five words.

Xerxes had as his sig a while back a quote from Thomas Jefferson that's stuck with me:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Well I'm an atheist and it doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg to for my neighbor to say there is one God.

I have no issue with what other people think. This is something different. This isn't inclusive. Either include everyone, or no one at all.