[dog77_1999]

ShintoMale ShintoMale:

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Brenda Brenda:

Why should I have to put myself in the shoes of a believer? "the believer" (you in this case...) don't try to put yourself in the shoes of a non-believer...

Religion is not the only truth, and neither is Atheism. It is a choice, though...

I said that to avoid a potential conflict. Nothing is worse than a vs religion ebattle.

I have put myself in both shoes. As a believer, what I just said makes sense. As a non-believer, I would say it is genetic knowledge passed down from person to person. We know it just like our body knows to beat the heart. It just does it on its own without our control.

Are these two interpretation any different from each other? Not really. I believe the Spirit lives inside all of us and guiding us to be good people. A consious if you will. There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

It's a real problem on both sides. Science and religion are one in the same.

wrong science who explain stuff in the natural, physical world. religion only deals with the supernatural and stuff outside the physical world

And people believe in God to explain what happens in the natural world. Religion and science are persuing the same thing. However, alot of people on both sides can't accept that the other side has a valid reasoning. Worst yet is when people shove down their beliefs down my throat. It's utterly disgusting.

[Red_Eye]

romanP romanP:

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is often a sign that one has stopped thinking about an aspect of reality.

not necissarily.

[Bacardi4206]

Religion had valid reasoning? All you get with religion is people telling you what did or did not exist. What is or what is not real without any proof to support there claims. You get rules with it, and a life-style that you are required to live by.

In the middle-east, religion dominates the minds of the people living there. There religious leaders controls there education. Infact a lot of brave news reports from those countries have came out and exposed it.

It doesn't matter if you are in the middle-east, or in the west, or anywhere else. Religion dominates and warps the minds of people. It gives people another border to live by, seperating human beings by another group. Another reason for us to hate and kill each other. Infact all the remaining jews (Not many left) in Iraq are afraid to even pray to there gods or do any jewish celebrations for the fear of something bad happening to them and there family and friends. Hell there is one guy who doesn't even leave his house, who dares not cross any check points as his religions is on his ID Card that is required to pass check points.

Every human being is seperated by different factors. Race, Country and Religion.
There use to be Race bashing, but that is no longer as strong as it use to be. Majority of wars have been because of disagreements between countries. If there wasn't multiple countries, they would be no division between everybody and no more wars as a country simply can't just start a war against itself. Unless it's civilians taking up arms against its government. Then there is religion that was the cause of majority of the wars in the old days, and still exists to be a good cause for bashing one another. Not a key role for wars as it use to be in the Medieval Ages, Ancient Times, and other times but still plays a key role in some countries and politicians who are not moral human beings like in Africa, and there constantly dictators.

Religion is the worst thing we ever created besides for the Atom Bomb, and other WMD's. The world would be a better place where nobody was seperated by these many divisons of what color your skin is, what country you are from, what religion you believe in. People are free to believe in whatever the hell they wanted, and there was nobody to tell them they were wrong to believe it.

The only way we can progress as human beings, and as a civilization is to get rid of all these borders between ourselves, and stop killing each other off and fighting each other. However seeing how we are all arrogant, I have more money bet on that we will kill ourselves long before we ever get a chance to realize that.

[ManifestDestiny]

Why compare to the USA?

I mean, I know that a large segment of Canada loves to point and say "look look told we are not like them" but this article seems to want to use that weakness to spread their agenda.

[Bacardi4206]

MD I seriously think you are really becoming paranoid. Everything you say is always "You Canadians are always pointing fingers at the USA", "Everything is always about the USA", "You guys think more about USA's problems then you do your own".

Seriously starting to get worried about you, you know that paranoia is not good right? Think of all the mental illness's it may lead to or ones you may have that is causing it.

[ManifestDestiny]

My paranoia, have you read the article? I am just pointing out what the article does I am not paranoid.

[Bacardi4206]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

My paranoia, have you read the article? I am just pointing out what the article does I am not paranoid.

Yes I have read the article, and here is why I think you are paranoid.

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

Why compare to the USA?

I mean, I know that a large segment of Canada loves to point and say "look look told we are not like them" but this article seems to want to use that weakness to spread their agenda.

"Canada's secularism stands in clearer distinction, when compared to the cultural and political influences of religion in the United States,'' said Anderson. "In one Harris Interactive study in the United States, conducted in 2007, the number who said they were non-believers was only eight per cent.''

Keith Howard, a United church minister and executive director of the church's Emerging Spirit program, said the results of the new survey do not represent a dramatic change from previous polls about Canadians' beliefs.

They were comparing polls about how many people believe in god, they were not comparing countries... There is nobody in this article 'pointing fingers' saying "We are not like them". If comparing polls between Canada and the US is Canadians secretly telling everybody that we are not like the US. Then I'll be dammed but I think it would only take somebody whos paranoid to see something like that out of a quote like that.

[romanP]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

$1:

I agree, Christianity IS and should be a choice. I didn't say I wanted it taught in school. I said that we are no longer free to openly discuss our views at school without being slapped on the hand.

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? You should be allowed to discuss any religion at school. In fact, I don't know about now, but when I was in high school (10+ years ago), there was a World Religions course, which is something every school should have. There is no harm in learning about religion.

[Blue_Nose]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

You can ask "why" about a lot of things, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily an answer, nor does it in any way logically follow to label the answer "God". Your "believer" answer, therefore, is in no way rational, anymore than people who believe bad weather is caused by angry Gods are being rational.

This "God of the gaps" argument really has no merit, since you're simply attributing things to God arbitrarily out of ignorance, even if that ignorance extends throughout the entire human population.

God creates the weather and so does the convection heating of water from sunlight and it evaporating into the atmosphere and condensing. They are one in the same. The two are the same.

God may have created those processes, but there's absolutely no reason to believe (assuming we're talking about a personal God) he's actually involved in the day-to-day process. If you want to believe God created all the laws of nature, etc, that's absolutely fine, I'm not going to argue against that.

If someone asks why there was a rainstorm during their birthday party, the only rational answer is that the natural processes that exist happened to cause one. The notion that God intentionally and purposely caused the rainstorm (for any reason) is baseless and irrational.

All people did thousands of years ago when they saw a lightning storm was assume that was God - all you're doing is taking it one small step further now that we understand the processes that caused that thunderstorm and saying that's God.

I think you missed the point, though - in your original statement, all you did was point to something you may or may not fully understand (ie, a "gap" in your knowledge) and said, "I don't know the answer to this, therefore God has to exist in order to fill in that gap." It's a meaningless argument because you could insert any arbitrary "filler" into the gap and it's no more or less valid. You assumed something had to be there (a purpose), and arbitrarily speculated as to what it was (God) - that's not scientific at all.

[romanP]

travior travior:

I can understand that as well. However, on the flip-side, I do not agree with evolution being taught as a proven fact. It is still a theory.

Gravity is also a theory. We don't quite know or understand exactly what it is or how it works, but there it is, keeping us from flying off into space.

Just because something is a theory doesn't mean it has no basis in reality.

$1:

Many of the so-called mutations that are referred to are usually influenced by man's actions, either intentionally or as a side-effect of things we have done to this planet.

They talk about viruses mutating when more likely the virus has always been there but wasn't dominate. WHen the dominate varients died off through either natural causes or antibiotics, the hardier ones or slightly different ones in the stran are lorded as the new mutation of the virus.

I think you should do a bit more research on evolution before you decide it doesn't exist. You've clearly been fed a lot of misinformation about the subject.

[Blue_Nose]

Evolution is proven. Science has shown that it happened as much as it has shown anything has happened in thousands of instances, and nothing contradicts it.

That's got nothing to do with believing in God, though.

[romanP]

Brenda Brenda:

I have tried to put myself in the shoes of a religeous person, but I just can't. I just can't see all the things that happen everywhere come from a higher spirit, or whatever you want to call it. I just can't say, when a kid dies of cancer: that was Gods will. Children shouldn't die. Especially not out of Gods will. (no offence though, it is just that I can't think that way, I don't say every religeous person thinks that way either... )

Why shouldn't it be God's will? Why do you assume that God has emotions, or that God is any other sort of anthropomorphised caricature anyone could come up with?

Living things die, and that is just the way things happen. Some things die sooner than others.

[romanP]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

romanP romanP:

Red_Eye Red_Eye:

I think about belief is that theres a fear about being wrong of a certain arrogance of being right. Either way, we don't like as humans being on the wrong side of an issue. So we tend to hold are ground and push the other in our direction.

the polite ones walk on eggshells

Belief is a dangerous thing. It is often a sign that one has stopped thinking about an aspect of reality.

Don't you have to "believe" there is no God in the same way yopu have to "believe" there is one? Is there not an element of faith in acceptign science?

One can believe in no God, or one can simply not believe in God. Belief in no God signifies that one has decided there is no God, and has stopped thinking about it. A lack of belief in God signifies that one still has an open mind about the subject.

[romanP]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

If someone asks why there was a rainstorm during their birthday party, the only rational answer is that the natural processes that exist happened to cause one. The notion that God intentionally and purposely caused the rainstorm (for any reason) is baseless and irrational.

It's not really baseless or irrational, as long as you don't try to apply your own selfish reasons to it. It's just something that was going to happen.

$1:

All people did thousands of years ago when they saw a lightning storm was assume that was God - all you're doing is taking it one small step further now that we understand the processes that caused that thunderstorm and saying that's God.

It is God. We still don't know what electricity is, we just know how to generate lots of it. Even if, some day, we should discover what electricity is (have they turned on the Large Hadron Collider yet? I'm really anxious to find out what happens when they do), it will still be God's creation, because we will likely never be able to fully understand everything about our universe or how a universe can even exist. There are only theories as of yet, and all of them are untestable since they all have the potential to be about places that do not follow the known laws of physics that apply to our universe.

[Arctic_Menace]

romanP romanP:

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

$1:

I agree, Christianity IS and should be a choice. I didn't say I wanted it taught in school. I said that we are no longer free to openly discuss our views at school without being slapped on the hand.

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? You should be allowed to discuss any religion at school. In fact, I don't know about now, but when I was in high school (10+ years ago), there was a World Religions course, which is something every school should have. There is no harm in learning about religion.

Hell, I took that Worlds Religions Course when I was in High School, but it didn't really teach me more than I already knew about nearly all religions except Shinto...

Learning about religions adn their values adn beliefs, I have no problem with. It's when they try to force their beliefs as accepted truth that I draw the line...