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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:23 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
martin14 martin14:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Obviously we'll never know, but I have doubts that the US would have been as willing to use nukes on Germany as they were on Japan.

Additionally, US strategy deliberately left some cities unscathed by large bombing raids (so they could determine how effective nukes really were) is more proof that they always intended to use it on Japan. The casualties at Okinawa simply became a convenient excuse for its use.


Wismar and Bremen were not heavily bombed German cities.

I have no doubts the Americans would have nuked Germany, it was only they
surrendered before Trinity was ready, July 1945.


The USAF left four or five cities totally UNTOUCHED by strategic bombing - Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Kyoto (due to historical reasons) and one or two others I can't recall ATM. That means NO bombing raids at all, not just lightly bombed like Wismar and Bremen. Every other major city (70 or so) got hammered by raids and burnt to the ground.

To my knowledge, not one major German city was ignored for the entirety of the war by Allied bombing campaigns.



The major cities of Germany were hammered nightly from 1940 and daily AND nightly from 1942 onward. The USAAF was only in a position to bomb Japanese cities at the end of the War. Get a globe. Britain is near Germany. The Americans had to conquer islands near Japan and develop a long range bomber before they could put on anything more than a symbolic raid. You are comparing Weiner Schnitzel with Sushi.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:54 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
bootlegga bootlegga:

The USAF left four or five cities totally UNTOUCHED by strategic bombing - Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Kyoto (due to historical reasons) and one or two others I can't recall ATM. That means NO bombing raids at all, not just lightly bombed like Wismar and Bremen. Every other major city (70 or so) got hammered by raids and burnt to the ground.

To my knowledge, not one major German city was ignored for the entirety of the war by Allied bombing campaigns.



The major cities of Germany were hammered nightly from 1940 and daily AND nightly from 1942 onward. The USAAF was only in a position to bomb Japanese cities at the end of the War. Get a globe. Britain is near Germany. The Americans had to conquer islands near Japan and develop a long range bomber before they could put on anything more than a symbolic raid. You are comparing Weiner Schnitzel with Sushi.


:roll:

Well, no shit sherlock.

Heavy bombing of Japanese didn't really start until after the Marianas chain fell in August of 1944 - unless you want to include the raids staged out of Chengdu (which by most accounts were relatively ineffective).

The atomic bomb was dropped August 6th and 9th, 1945.

So, despite Hiroshima, Nagasaki and a few other cities having significant industrial and/or military targets, they were basically untouched by any bombing raids for nearly a full year.

Why?

If they really were legitimate targets for bombing, why were they left untouched for a full year? Aside from Kyoto, which was spared for historical purposes, it makes no sense unless there was another reason for it.

That reason is that the US had long planned to drop the bomb on Japan - Okinawa simply provided them a very convenient excuse to do so.


Last edited by bootlegga on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:08 pm
 


In the real world...the Allies were always gonna whack Japan...'payback', as soon as they got something to whack them with....IMO

Aussie POWs who being slowly tortured to death in camps within sight of the Nagasaki mushroom cloud [they wondered what on earth it was]...were very happy Nagasaki was nuked...as they were then freed and repatriated back home on US warships...good food, good blankets, and good company.

Love those US warships.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:53 pm
 


bambu bambu:
Here we go again!

Japan should've been disarmed after WW2 and never allowed to arm itself again.

Wouldn't surprise me if Japan sent it to Antartica in 4 months time to guard its whaling fleet from Sea Shepherd.
Oh but Sea Shepherd could afford a ship like that.

http://www.3news.co.nz/PHOTOS-Japan-remembers-Hiroshima-bombing/tabid/417/articleID/307796/Default.aspx

PHOTOS: Japan remembers Hiroshima bombing


Japan is commemorating the 68th anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima with pledges to seek to eliminate nuclear weapons.

Some 50,000 people gathered Tuesday (local time) in Hiroshima's peace park near the epicentre of the 1945 blast that killed up to 140,000 people. The bombing of Nagasaki three days later killed tens of thousands more, prompting Japan's surrender to the World War II Allies.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said that as the sole country to face nuclear attack, Japan has the duty to seek to wipe out nuclear weapons.


#####

No thanx...the Allies must keep their nukes [Obama must be stopped from reducing America's nukes] so that Japan can never do again what it did in WW2.

Japan nuked WW2...only got what it deserved.

The Japanese are one of North Americas Greatest Ally especially in dealing with North Korea, so you obviously know nothing.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:11 pm
 


Japan is basically kicking the US military out of Japan...and building aircraft carriers again['start off small and work your way up'].

Obama must not be allowed to reduce America's nuke arsenal...to protect all its allies from any who would do them and the US harm...like Iran and Nth Korea for example.

I'm not the only one saying it.

No nukes...Japan might team up with someone else and bomb America and its allies again, eh?
Who knows what might befall a non-nuclear West.


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/rep_mike_rogers_pushing_to_pre.html


Rep. Mike Rogers pushing to prevent Obama administration from reducing country's nuclear arsenal


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:59 pm
 


Sounds to me that Japan is infested with military contractors, and aircraft carriers are a sure profit center.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:01 pm
 


Carriers actually are not very profitable. They are very expensive to build and most countries don't export them. The only carrier(s) being sold to another country (in the last 20 years, that I can remember) were the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Kiev Class CV) and the Chinese CV Liaoning (Admiral Kuznetsov class) (it was sold a hulk to the chinese who were going to turn it into a "Casino")


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:08 pm
 


bambu bambu:
Japan is basically kicking the US military out of Japan...and building aircraft carriers again['start off small and work your way up'].

Obama must not be allowed to reduce America's nuke arsenal...to protect all its allies from any who would do them and the US harm...like Iran and Nth Korea for example.

I'm not the only one saying it.

No nukes...Japan might team up with someone else and bomb America and its allies again, eh?
Who knows what might befall a non-nuclear West.


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/rep_mike_rogers_pushing_to_pre.html


Rep. Mike Rogers pushing to prevent Obama administration from reducing country's nuclear arsenal


Nukes are the scariest fucking weapon ever devised. We do not need them, your hate has blinded you to the fact the Japan still feels the effects of the fallout 68 years later (a fact you probably will love, no doubt) but those are people who never so much a fired a shot at the allies in the pacific. Thats a weapon that once used its over for all of us. MAD=Mutual Assured Destruction.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:40 am
 


llama66 llama66:
bambu bambu:
Japan is basically kicking the US military out of Japan...and building aircraft carriers again['start off small and work your way up'].

Obama must not be allowed to reduce America's nuke arsenal...to protect all its allies from any who would do them and the US harm...like Iran and Nth Korea for example.

I'm not the only one saying it.

No nukes...Japan might team up with someone else and bomb America and its allies again, eh?
Who knows what might befall a non-nuclear West.


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/rep_mike_rogers_pushing_to_pre.html


Rep. Mike Rogers pushing to prevent Obama administration from reducing country's nuclear arsenal


Nukes are the scariest fucking weapon ever devised. We do not need them, your hate has blinded you to the fact the Japan still feels the effects of the fallout 68 years later (a fact you probably will love, no doubt) but those are people who never so much a fired a shot at the allies in the pacific. Thats a weapon that once used its over for all of us. MAD=Mutual Assured Destruction.

Only good thing to come of them is that we finally realized just how much power we actually hold and that we could wipe out almost all intelligent life on earth if we wanted so we are starting to push disarmament programs. Sadly it took until the buildup made it so we could kills the world dozens of times over before we figured out the disarmament thing.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:29 am
 


So, despite Hiroshima, Nagasaki and a few other cities having significant industrial and/or military targets, they were basically untouched by any bombing raids for nearly a full year.

Why?



How about: It took time for the Americans to ramp up their forces there. They had exactly one year from a standing start to deploying thousands of B-29s and laying waste to all of the cities of Japan? ... not possible ... on their own, anyway.

Sorry, but this is yet another made-up, revisionist conspiracy theory.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:19 pm
 


Someone forgot?? Spain is building 2 carrier's for the RAN.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:22 pm
 


Will the RN ever finish the ones that they have going? Will their funding hold out? If it does, will there be any other ships operating in the RN?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Queen_Elizabeth_(R08)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:00 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
So, despite Hiroshima, Nagasaki and a few other cities having significant industrial and/or military targets, they were basically untouched by any bombing raids for nearly a full year.

Why?



How about: It took time for the Americans to ramp up their forces there. They had exactly one year from a standing start to deploying thousands of B-29s and laying waste to all of the cities of Japan? ... not possible ... on their own, anyway.

Sorry, but this is yet another made-up, revisionist conspiracy theory.


So they had time to bomb as many as 67 Japanese other cities (some of them more than once) but Kokura, Nagasaki and Hiroshima (all targets picked by the Target Committee) just happened by some stroke of luck to avoid getting bombed conventionally?

Okay, whatever...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:07 pm
 


Okay, whatever...

I think that you are overestimating the resources that they had at their disposal. It may be convenient for you do so for the sake of your argument. Don't let those scheming, racist, imperialist pig-dogs get away, now. It's been proven BEYOND THE SHADOW OF A DOUBT that they also faked the moon landings.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:24 pm
 


llama66 llama66:
Carriers actually are not very profitable. They are very expensive to build and most countries don't export them. The only carrier(s) being sold to another country (in the last 20 years, that I can remember) were the INS Vikramaditya (ex-Kiev Class CV) and the Chinese CV Liaoning (Admiral Kuznetsov class) (it was sold a hulk to the chinese who were going to turn it into a "Casino")


I should have specified that carriers are a profit center for military contractors, not for the government building them.


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