[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

I always love to hear Con supporters talk/write about the Cons like nothing is the Cons' responsibility.


Anyone who can't see that the Cretien and Martin governments were far superior to the crap that we have now needs to be strapped into a chair and fed pablum.

You're an idiot.

[DrCaleb]

^^ On that, we can agree!

[PluggyRug]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I always love to hear people talk/write about the deficit like it had no purpose, no cause and no reason behind it.

I always love to hear Con supporters talk/write about the Cons like nothing is the Cons' responsibility.


Anyone who can't see that the Cretien and Martin governments were far superior to the crap that we have now needs to be strapped into a chair and fed pablum.

[2Cdo]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I always love to hear people talk/write about the deficit like it had no purpose, no cause and no reason behind it.

I always love to hear Con supporters talk/write about the Cons like nothing is the Cons' responsibility.


Anyone who can't see that the Cretien and Martin governments were far superior to the crap that we have now needs to be strapped into a chair and fed pablum.

What, and take your position.

[CDN_PATRIOT]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

I always love to hear Con supporters talk/write about the Cons like nothing is the Cons' responsibility.


Anyone who can't see that the Cretien and Martin governments were far superior to the crap that we have now needs to be strapped into a chair and fed pablum.

To quote a family member, you have 'rice pudding between the ears.' But thanks for coming out! We really enjoy your input! Really we do!

-J.

[smorgdonkey]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

What, and take your position.

Wow...top notch comedic content. That's just the grade 8 version of "I know you are but what am I?".

...and you morons are all slapping each other on each other's back. You fools are the reason Harpoon is running the country.

[2Cdo]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

What, and take your position.

Wow...top notch comedic content. That's just the grade 8 version of "I know you are but what am I?".

...and you morons are all slapping each other on each other's back. You fools are the reason Harpoon is running the country.

You're too stupid for intelligent humour, so that's all you get.

[JaredMilne]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yes, I do.

I'd rather take the risk of having to borrow money than having to actually borrow money.

I also run my personal finances much the same. I don't save money in the traditional sense. I don't have a rainy day fund.

I invest money and dip into credit in the chance of an emergency.

Here's the thing, though-that contingency fund is meant for unexpected budget shortfalls that come up because of things that no one could reasonably have expected.

Let's say the budget expects $3 billion in tax revenue from farming jobs based on the current price of grain. However, the price of grain falls, and the farming jobs provide only $1.4 billion in tax revenue. That means the government is now facing a $1.6 billion shortfall.

If we have a $3 billion contingency fund in place, we can dip into that to keep the books balanced. However, if we now only have a $1 billion contingency fund, as Harper and Oliver have now set up, we'd still end up $600 million in the red. That suggests to me the lower the contingency fund, the greater the risk that we actually have to borrow money.

Now, I don't know what kind of risk tolerance you have, but in my case I've noticed how often emergencies can happen when you least expect them. Floods, car accidents, fires, personal injuries, unemployment, and any number of other crises can occur and cost you plenty in the pocketbook.

Depending on exactly what kind of choices people make, their exposure to risk can be bigger or smaller, but it never goes away. Having a rainy day fund can ease a lot of the pain you can run into, particularly if it saves you from having to incur debt that you become responsible for later on. That matters a lot to people who don't necessarily have great access to credit, or who might end up having to apply to those payday loan places.

The same thing can occur with government budgets, particularly when factors like interest rates, resource prices, housing bubbles, the unemployment rate, and so much more can impact government revenues in ways even the brightest economists can't foresee. That's why a contingency fund makes sense to me, especially these days when the economy could either soar or tank on any given week.

Taking money from that rainy day fund to cover current expenses is not smart budgeting, in my view-all it does is increase the risk that you have to pay things off with credit.

[JaredMilne]

Another point-the budget is only balanced because Harper and Oliver took several billion dollars from the EI fund.

That money, paid by ordinary, hardworking Canadians, is intended to give them a hand when they're unemployed, particularly if it's through no fault of their own. It's not supposed to be considered standard government revenue. The Conservatives used to give the Liberals hell for pilfering from it to bolster their surpluses. Now, though, Harper and Oliver are the ones doing it, and when they're called out simply say that the Liberals did it too.

If they weren't sucking at the EI teat, Harper and Oliver wouldn't have come anywhere close to balancing the budget.

[andyt]

Don't you think it makes sense to tax all income below a cut off at a flat tax, but give tax breaks to those who make far more than that cut off amount?

[smorgdonkey]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

You're too stupid for intelligent humour, so that's all you get.

You have no idea because you know SFA and quite frankly, you never deliver anything but stupid humour because it's all you are capable of.


The #1 thing wrong with this forum is that people are so entrenched in who their enemies are that they can't recognize any intelligent thought outside of the spectrum of their own beliefs.

...and it suffers the same characteristic of any forum/website in that people will say anything because they don't have to say it to someone's face.

[2Cdo]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

You're too stupid for intelligent humour, so that's all you get.

You have no idea because you know SFA and quite frankly, you never deliver anything but stupid humour because it's all you are capable of.


The #1 thing wrong with this forum is that people are so entrenched in who their enemies are that they can't recognize any intelligent thought outside of the spectrum of their own beliefs.

...and it suffers the same characteristic of any forum/website in that people will say anything because they don't have to say it to someone's face.

What a load of whiny bullshit.

[JaredMilne]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

You have no idea because you know SFA and quite frankly, you never deliver anything but stupid humour because it's all you are capable of.


The #1 thing wrong with this forum is that people are so entrenched in who their enemies are that they can't recognize any intelligent thought outside of the spectrum of their own beliefs.

...and it suffers the same characteristic of any forum/website in that people will say anything because they don't have to say it to someone's face.

You ever think of looking in the mirror when you say that, hoss?

[OnTheIce]

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Here's the thing, though-that contingency fund is meant for unexpected budget shortfalls that come up because of things that no one could reasonably have expected.

Let's say the budget expects $3 billion in tax revenue from farming jobs based on the current price of grain. However, the price of grain falls, and the farming jobs provide only $1.4 billion in tax revenue. That means the government is now facing a $1.6 billion shortfall.

If we have a $3 billion contingency fund in place, we can dip into that to keep the books balanced. However, if we now only have a $1 billion contingency fund, as Harper and Oliver have now set up, we'd still end up $600 million in the red. That suggests to me the lower the contingency fund, the greater the risk that we actually have to borrow money.

A contingency fund doesn't make sense unless it's accruing interest. When you have as much debt as we do, keeping billions in the bank at 0% interest while we pay interest on our debt is foolish.

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Now, I don't know what kind of risk tolerance you have, but in my case I've noticed how often emergencies can happen when you least expect them. Floods, car accidents, fires, personal injuries, unemployment, and any number of other crises can occur and cost you plenty in the pocketbook.

Depending on exactly what kind of choices people make, their exposure to risk can be bigger or smaller, but it never goes away. Having a rainy day fund can ease a lot of the pain you can run into, particularly if it saves you from having to incur debt that you become responsible for later on. That matters a lot to people who don't necessarily have great access to credit, or who might end up having to apply to those payday loan places. /quote]

The people who don't have access to credit are likely the same people that don't have enough money to have a rainy day fund so it's a wash for those people.

It makes far more sense to put money away at 12% interest and keep a line of credit or a high limit-low interest credit card on hand for those type of situations.

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

Taking money from that rainy day fund to cover current expenses is not smart budgeting, in my view-all it does is increase the risk that you have to pay things off with credit.

Taking the money this time was for one of the reasons you described above. Things changed. The economy changed. Oil prices tanked.

[JaredMilne]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

A contingency fund doesn't make sense unless it's accruing interest. When you have as much debt as we do, keeping billions in the bank at 0% interest while we pay interest on our debt is foolish.

It's not foolish if that money can suddenly be used to relieve Canadians in distress, such as Albertans or Manitobans who have to cope with sudden floods, or Ontarians and Quebecers who have to cope with ice storms.

Unfortunately, shit happens, and when it does we often don't see it coming. It can, however, be mitigated by effective use of resources...which also prevents us from taking on debt that we end up having to pay interest on.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Taking the money this time was for one of the reasons you described above. Things changed. The economy changed. Oil prices tanked.

Not quite. In the situation I described, the government would have budgeted $3 billion coming in from agricultural tax revenues, but the price of grain only tanked after the budget was reviewed and passed by Parliament, say, four months later in the fiscal year. The extra $1.6 billion the government expected would not come up, because the price of grain fell unexpectedly. The contingency fund is only meant to cover things that happen after the budget is already signed, sealed and delivered.

In the federal government's situation, though, the price of oil was already in the crapper by the end of 2014, a good four months before Oliver presented the budget. That's something the government could have easily covered off by not going through with certain tax credits, reducing the budgeted expenditures on any number of things, and so forth.

Instead, Harper and Oliver weren't able to balance the budget without raiding the rainy day fund...and even more so by stealing from the EI fund the exact same way Harper always used to blast the Liberals for doing.