[travior]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

$1:

Either non-believers will get the shock of their eternal lives, or we will fade to black.

or it turns out that Christianity and everyone else is wrong, and God is nothing like what anyone has thought or what anyone has been told...

Point

[Arctic_Menace]

travior travior:

Another point is one that many Christians forget about or try to forget:

There is a very good chance that there WILL be Muslims, Buddists, etc in Heaven after judgment by God. He stated that those that have not had the chance to hear His word would be tried seperately. If they lived a life that was, for lack of a better phrase, "close enough" to what he required, that they would be found to be good and allowed to enter into the Kingdom.

And there will be lots of children there as well, from all religons. Those that are too young to understand or do not have the mental capacity to understand and decide for themselves will not be judged under God's grace. Those will be allowed into the Kingdom as well.

- Once again, that is my belief in the litteral reading of Christ's words -

I can more or less believe in that, but I also leave the door open to the possibility that there is no God or Christ or anything like that, and that Christians turn out to be wrong...

[Brenda]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? For some religion is no more real than the Gods of ancient Rome, but we all learned about those in school. I think a discussion about religion at school is quite appropriate, so long as your teacher isn't trying to convert you. I would have had no problem discussing the religions of Asia and the middle east in a social studies class.

I also think it is a good think to be taught about it in school. You can't make up your mind if you only know one side of a story... You can't call yourself an Atheist without knowledge of religion, and you can't call yourself religious just for the sake of it, if you think religion, Atheism or being agnostic is a choice.

But teach every religion. Not just Christianity...

[Arctic_Menace]

RUEZ RUEZ:

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

Forgive me, but you shouldn't be allowed to discuss that at school.

Why not? For some religion is no more real than the Gods of ancient Rome, but we all learned about those in school. I think a discussion about religion at school is quite appropriate, so long as your teacher isn't trying to convert you. I would have had no problem discussing the religions of Asia and the middle east in a social studies class.

You misunderstand me. I don't mind talking about religion in terms of: "The people of <blank> tend to follow the religion of <blank> and here are some of their beliefs..."

I DO however have a problem with this: "Evolution is wrong. This is how it REALLY happened..."

I have a problem with people trying to propagate their beliefs and views in a classroom, but I have no problem with people asking that a little education about their religion is taught in schools.

[travior]

I can understand that as well. However, on the flip-side, I do not agree with evolution being taught as a proven fact. It is still a theory. Many of the so-called mutations that are referred to are usually influenced by man's actions, either intentionally or as a side-effect of things we have done to this planet.

They talk about viruses mutating when more likely the virus has always been there but wasn't dominate. WHen the dominate varients died off through either natural causes or antibiotics, the hardier ones or slightly different ones in the stran are lorded as the new mutation of the virus.

Also, if you were truely intent on seperation of church and state, I guess you need to have all those religious-inspired laws repealed. You know, like murder, adultry, one-spouse only, etc. etc.

[travior]

Sorry if I sound a little bitchy in that last post. Been a long week with too little sleep. Sleep deprivation is kicking in I tend to get a bit snappy

[Brenda]

Murder, adultry (is that still a crime???), monogamy... You could call it laws made out of common sense or morality, and not with the bible in hand.

It is not that Atheists don't agree with laws like that, they just don't see it is being laid on them as an act of God, but just "common sense"

[dog77_1999]

Brenda Brenda:

Murder, adultry (is that still a crime???), monogamy... You could call it laws made out of common sense or morality, and not with the bible in hand.

It is not that Atheists don't agree with laws like that, they just don't see it is being laid on them as an act of God, but just "common sense"

Here's the thing. What exactly makes it "common sense"? Why is it that we all have this same feeling? Is it far fetched to believe God has given us the idea of right and wrong in all of us?

Not a Atheism vs Religion thing, but put yourself in the shoes of a believer.

[Brenda]

You might want to call it a God given thing, I like to call it common sense. What exactly makes it a common thing that God gave us the idea of right from wrong, and why shouldn't it just be a natural thing? Like a lion that goes for the weak animal before anything else to feed himself?

[Brenda]

Why should I have to put myself in the shoes of a believer? "the believer" (you in this case...) don't try to put yourself in the shoes of a non-believer...

Religion is not the only truth, and neither is Atheism. It is a choice, though...

[dog77_1999]

Brenda Brenda:

Why should I have to put myself in the shoes of a believer? "the believer" (you in this case...) don't try to put yourself in the shoes of a non-believer...

Religion is not the only truth, and neither is Atheism. It is a choice, though...

I said that to avoid a potential conflict. Nothing is worse than a vs religion ebattle.

I have put myself in both shoes. As a believer, what I just said makes sense. As a non-believer, I would say it is genetic knowledge passed down from person to person. We know it just like our body knows to beat the heart. It just does it on its own without our control.

Are these two interpretation any different from each other? Not really. I believe the Spirit lives inside all of us and guiding us to be good people. A consious if you will. There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

It's a real problem on both sides. Science and religion are one in the same.

[Public_Domain]

[Red_Eye]

travior travior:

I agree with that statement. One of the things that we Christians tend to forget is that God has instructed us to spread the gospel to the world but NOT to judge the world. Judgement is reserved for God alone.

We are also instructed to hate the sin but love the sinner. Sadly, that one is overlooked as well.

One of Christ's commands to his desciples was to enter a city and share the message. If they were rejected, they were to shake the dust from their feet and move on to the next place. He never said for us to keep cramming it down their throats.

See this quote I can respect. If this was followed by members of the faith I think things would be more tolerable, a certain live and let live. As for the Amish fpr example they are in there own corner doing there own thing and only get chuckled at by the less tolorant, but in general are left alone by the general population.
But yeah from what i've read there's too much preaching from both sides.

[Red_Eye]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

Only 23%?

I have to admit, i thought it would be higher.

But then again, I suppose that is a lot.

remind yourself that this source tends to pull stats out of his hat like a magician and white rabbits.............

[Brenda]

dog77_1999 dog77_1999:

Brenda Brenda:

Why should I have to put myself in the shoes of a believer? "the believer" (you in this case...) don't try to put yourself in the shoes of a non-believer...

Religion is not the only truth, and neither is Atheism. It is a choice, though...

I said that to avoid a potential conflict. Nothing is worse than a vs religion ebattle.

I have put myself in both shoes. As a believer, what I just said makes sense. As a non-believer, I would say it is genetic knowledge passed down from person to person. We know it just like our body knows to beat the heart. It just does it on its own without our control.

Are these two interpretation any different from each other? Not really. I believe the Spirit lives inside all of us and guiding us to be good people. A consious if you will. There might be a scientific explaination on why the mechanism happens, but ultimatly, why is there a mechanism?

It's a real problem on both sides. Science and religion are one in the same.

What it all comes down to, imo, is that we all should have some respect. Respect for beliefs, whether that is in a God, or not in a God. What we should stop doing, is push our believes onto someone else. Everybody is free to believe in what he/she wants...

I have tried to put myself in the shoes of a religeous person, but I just can't. I just can't see all the things that happen everywhere come from a higher spirit, or whatever you want to call it. I just can't say, when a kid dies of cancer: that was Gods will. Children shouldn't die. Especially not out of Gods will. (no offence though, it is just that I can't think that way, I don't say every religeous person thinks that way either... )

Why do we always start tip-toeing when it comes to religion? I am kinda scared to hurt someones feelings by expressing mine