[N_Fiddledog]

[Thanos]

Even Nixon figured out that he had to go to China, and then officially host the Soviets at the White House too. Odd to see so many want to destroy any deal with Iran, considering that the terrorism financed/encouraged/supplied by Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous (see ISIS/AL Qaeda) to American/Western interests and lives than the petered-out revolution from Iran is. I understand that as most of them have long since been bought out by the Kingdom so it's not all that surprising to see the Congress take up the most vehemently anti-Iranian stance possible. It'd be nice to see, though entirely doubtful that it would ever happen, Americans come to the understanding that the only beneficiaries of continued cold-war conflict with Iran are the Saudis and Likud. Everyone else loses in the scenario where deals with Iran are lost due to Beltway politics and the combined Likud/Saudi ownership of the American political system.

The puppeteers want a hot war in Iran, regardless of the literal fact that Iran is by default an ally in the much more important fight against ISIS and Al Qaeda, and they'll eventually get one. No matter which Republican wins in 2016, except maybe for Rand Paul, a GOP White House will have the entire US military neck deep in Iran by the winter of 2017/2018. And it could conceivably happen too if Hilary Clinton is elected because too much of the Democrats are also owned by foreign interests and will also be required to do their stations-of-the-cross and requisite genuflecting to Binyamin Netanyahu. The machinery for the next unnecessary war, that will be predicated entirely on lies as much as the 2003 one was, has been operating at near maximum efficiency. All one really has to do is open their ears and they too will be able to hear the gears grinding away in Washington DC towards it's inevitable conclusion.

[andyt]

Congress has been bought out by the Israel lobby far more than the Saudi one.

[xerxes]

Thanos Thanos:

Even Nixon figured out that he had to go to China, and then officially host the Soviets at the White House too. Odd to see so many want to destroy any deal with Iran, considering that the terrorism financed/encouraged/supplied by Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous (see ISIS/AL Qaeda) to American/Western interests and lives than the petered-out revolution from Iran is. I understand that as most of them have long since been bought out by the Kingdom so it's not all that surprising to see the Congress take up the most vehemently anti-Iranian stance possible. It'd be nice to see, though entirely doubtful that it would ever happen, Americans come to the understanding that the only beneficiaries of continued cold-war conflict with Iran are the Saudis and Likud. Everyone else loses in the scenario where deals with Iran are lost due to Beltway politics and the combined Likud/Saudi ownership of the American political system.

The puppeteers want a hot war in Iran, regardless of the literal fact that Iran is by default an ally in the much more important fight against ISIS and Al Qaeda, and they'll eventually get one. No matter which Republican wins in 2016, except maybe for Rand Paul, a GOP White House will have the entire US military neck deep in Iran by the winter of 2017/2018. And it could conceivably happen too if Hilary Clinton is elected because too much of the Democrats are also owned by foreign interests and will also be required to do their stations-of-the-cross and requisite genuflecting to Binyamin Netanyahu. The machinery for the next unnecessary war, that will be predicated entirely on lies as much as the 2003 one was, has been operating at near maximum efficiency. All one really has to do is open their ears and they too will be able to hear the gears grinding away in Washington DC towards it's inevitable conclusion.

Reality doesn't matter. This is Obama's doing so it's bad by default.

[Jabberwalker]

Israel is the expansionist power in the region

Wrong

Israel is AN expansionist power in the region. None of those borders are more than 2-3 generations old. They were arrogantly drawn in the sand (literally) by the French and British during the liquidation of the Ottoman Empire. The borders are mostly meaningless, anyway and they don't reflect any natural linguistic, ethnic nor religious divisions. With the possible exception of Egypt, the historic basis for those borders are no more meaningful ... and not much older that the basis of Israel's borders. These are ancient peoples at war, there but they are modern political inventions that they all live in.

[andyt]

What other country is seeking to expand it's borders? Possibly Iran with southern Iraq, but that's only because it would be handed to them on a platter, and even then people have suggested Iran would be satisfied with just having influence over the region.

[Jabberwalker]

New countries are emerging. One entity seeking to expand its borders is the greater Kurdistan and we are aiding them directly in doing so. The maps are being redrawn right now. The entity "Iraq" may very well cease to exist and the one called "Syria" is drastically changing shape. If the borders are redrawn along ethnic and sectarian lines, you'll hardly recognize the place. Singling out Israel is a bit disingenuous.

[N_Fiddledog]

The problem with this deal to make a deal right now is Iran and America seem to disagree on what's in it.

$1:

Zarif bragged in an earlier press conference with reporters that the United States had tentatively agreed to let it continue the enrichment of uranium, the key component in a nuclear bomb, as well as key nuclear research.

Zarif additionally said Iran would have all nuclear-related sanctions lifted once a final deal is signed and that the country would not be forced to shut down any of its currently operating nuclear installations.

Following a subsequent press conference by Secretary of State John Kerry—and release of a administration fact sheet on Iranian concessions—Zarif lashed out on Twitter over what he dubbed lies.

“The solutions are good for all, as they stand,” he tweeted. “There is no need to spin using ‘fact sheets’ so early on.”

Zarif went on to push back against claims by Kerry that the sanctions relief would be implemented in a phased fashion—and only after Iran verifies that it is not conducting any work on the nuclear weapons front.

Zarif, echoing previous comments, said the United States has promised an immediate termination of sanctions.

“Iran/5+1 Statement: ‘US will cease the application of ALL nuclear-related secondary economic and financial sanctions.’ Is this gradual?” he wrote on Twitter.

He then suggested a correction: “Iran/P5+1 Statement: ‘The EU will TERMINATE the implementation of ALL nuclear-related economic and financial sanctions’. How about this?”

The pushback from Iran’s chief diplomat follows a pattern of similar accusations by senior Iranian political figures after the announcement of previous agreements.

Following the signing of an interim agreement with Iran aimed at scaling back its nuclear work, Iran accused the United States of lying about details of the agreement.

On Thursday evening, Zarif told reporters the latest agreement allows Iran to keep operating its nuclear program.

“None of those measures” that will move to scale back Iran’s program “include closing any of our facilities,” Zarif said. “We will continue enriching; we will continue research and development.”

“Our heavy water reactor will be modernized and we will continue the Fordow facility,” Zarif said. “We will have centrifuges installed in Fordow, but not enriching.”

The move to allow Iran to keep centrifuges at Fordow, a controversial onetime military site, has elicited concern that Tehran could ramp up its nuclear work with ease.

Zarif said that once a final agreement is made, “all U.S. nuclear related secondary sanctions will be terminated,” he said. “This, I think, would be a major step forward.”

Zarif also revealed that Iran will be allowed to sell “enriched uranium” in the international market place and will be “hopefully making some money” from it.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... agreement/

From what the Iranians are saying they seem to think they're on there way to having bombs while getting big smoochies of approval from John and Barry.

So it's a safe bet that that's the attitude they're proceeding with. We have to ask ourselves "Is that a good idea?"

[N_Fiddledog]

Now as to the threat of Iran at the moment...

$1:

Iran’s geopolitical objectives go beyond the buildup of military power within its own borders. Iranian influence now stretches all the way to the horn of Africa. A web of self-sustaining secret wars has formed between Lebanon, Gaza, Somalia and Yemen with cooperation of Eritrea and Sudan. In Lebanon Iran has been fueling funds, weapons and training to Hezbollah, which in return delivers training to the Somali Al Shabaab and Houthi rebels in Yemen. The Somali conflict in return has delivered weapons, ammunition and even combatants to other conflicts through Iranian smuggle routes. Iran has also been smuggling weapons to Hamas in Gaza and the Sudanese government through Eritrea, the epicenter of Iran’s illegal smuggling activities. Iran is also believed to have constructed a naval base in Eritrea that supports these activities as well as military naval presence in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Through this activity Iran is not only able to tie down western resources, it has also succeeded in gaining a stronger position over for example Saudi Arabia as the Islamic state supporter of these rebellions.

https://africorruption.wordpress.com/20 ... et-wars-2/

[N_Fiddledog]

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

New countries are emerging. One entity seeking to expand its borders is the greater Kurdistan and we are aiding them directly in doing so. The maps are being redrawn right now. The entity "Iraq" may very well cease to exist and the one called "Syria" is drastically changing shape. If the borders are redrawn along ethnic and sectarian lines, you'll hardly recognize the place. Singling out Israel is a bit disingenuous.

Tell me about it. Not quite the same region but I have an atlas from the 1960s and looking at the countries' names and borders in Africa then compared to now is almost surreal.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

What other country is seeking to expand it's borders? Possibly Iran with southern Iraq, but that's only because it would be handed to them on a platter, and even then people have suggested Iran would be satisfied with just having influence over the region.

Israel has been the target of naked aggression for almost 70 years and their reaction to Palestine's aggression is called "expansionism"? I'd call it a defense mechanism. The farther they can push their borders, the harder it is for Hamas to direct indiscriminate rocket attacks against Tel Aviv and/or Jerusalem.
Israel's "need for expansion" has only one root cause and it's ain't some Jewish version of Lebensraum.

Meanwhile, in the West Bank many Palestinians owe their livelihoods to the Israelis as it's generally Israelis that employ them in decent paying jobs.
Even Abbas sees the benefit to some degree. Despite "imploring" his people to resist the temptation to work for any Israelis, he didn't forbid it.

And finally, in what is probably one of the greatest ironies in modern history, Palestine wouldn't even exist today if Israel had lost the 1948 Arab/Israeli war.

[Jabberwalker]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

New countries are emerging. One entity seeking to expand its borders is the greater Kurdistan and we are aiding them directly in doing so. The maps are being redrawn right now. The entity "Iraq" may very well cease to exist and the one called "Syria" is drastically changing shape. If the borders are redrawn along ethnic and sectarian lines, you'll hardly recognize the place. Singling out Israel is a bit disingenuous.

Tell me about it. Not quite the same region but I have an atlas from the 1960s and looking at the countries' names and borders in Africa then compared to now is almost surreal.

Iraq, Syria, Jordan ... these were formed at the same time as Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia and by the same small group of people (Saudi Arabia a generation later, Yemen two generations later). The Arab entities have managed to outlive the European ones by a substantial margin. The same sort of internal dynamics are at play in Arabia as in the old invented "Slavias". These countries are all recent inventions. The "ancient" Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is 16 years older than Israel and was just about as invasive.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I can count the number of 'regime changes' that went well on no fingers.

Germany, Japan, and Italy went pretty good.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Congress has been bought out by the Israel lobby far more than the Saudi one.

I would only hope so.