[Dayseed]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

DerbyX DerbyX:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp



Does this count?

I don't know a lot about the issue, but according to Dobbs that's a "certificate of live birth", not a birth certificate. Apparently some people, like Philadelphia attorney and Hilary Clinton supporter, Phillip Berg, want to see the birth certificate, not the certificate of live birth. I don't get what the difference is, but according to Dobbs there is one. So what he, and others (not just what you guys are calling southern, crackers) are asking is if the problem is the lack of the production of the birth certificate, why won't Obama simply do what McCain did when he was facing similar controversy, and produce the birth certificate?

If what he's saying is true, it sounds like a reasonable request. I don't see why making it makes people so angry. I do however see a certain hypocrisy, in vilifying and encouraging hatred towards a group of people, in this case people from the south, based on unsubstantiated claims, such as only they want to see the birth certificate, then calling them the bigots. I've only seen evidence of one group of bigots on this thread so far, and it isn't the people from the south.

But why does Obama have to answer to every crank who barfs out a question? I trust that along the way, somebody bothered to check these things when he registered as a candidate for the presidency.

And yes, I believe some of the demand for his citizenship evidence IS based on a racist notion that a black man "stole" the presidency. I don't know what motivates every person who questions it, but from some commentary, that's the reason.

[Freakinoldguy]

The answer is he doesn't. I somehow think that who ever is behind this whole birth certificate debacle, isn't doing this for race reasons, but to commence laying the ground work to discrediting him in the next election.

[N_Fiddledog]

As I understand it the birth certificate controversy began in the camp of Hilary Clinton supporters.

[DerbyX]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I don't know a lot about the issue, but according to Dobbs that's a "certificate of live birth", not a birth certificate. Apparently some people, like Philadelphia attorney and Hilary Clinton supporter, Phillip Berg, want to see the birth certificate, not the certificate of live birth. I don't get what the difference is, but according to Dobbs there is one. So what he, and others (not just what you guys are calling southern, crackers) are asking is if the problem is the lack of the production of the birth certificate, why won't Obama simply do what McCain did when he was facing similar controversy, and produce the birth certificate?

If what he's saying is true, it sounds like a reasonable request. I don't see why making it makes people so angry. I do however see a certain hypocrisy, in vilifying and encouraging hatred towards a group of people, in this case people from the south, based on unsubstantiated claims, such as only they want to see the birth certificate, then calling them the bigots. I've only seen evidence of one group of bigots on this thread so far, and it isn't the people from the south.

$1:

Is a certification of live birth the same thing as a birth certificate in Hawaii?

Answer: They are two different documents.

A "Certification of Live Birth" is a short form birth certificate. The information included in the document may differ from state to state. A "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii will include the name and sex of the person, date of birth, hour of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name, father's race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

A Birth Certificate, or "Certificate of Live Birth," is the long form birth certificate and contains more detailed information, including signatures of doctor(s), witnesses, vital statistics (length and weight), etc.

According to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:
"In order to process your application (to verify that you are a genuine native Hawaiian), DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."
Per Hawaiian law, Statue 338.13, any certified copies of the original document can serve the same purpose as the original document.
"(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18."
Usually the certification is stamped and signed on the lower reverse side of the document and says "I certify this is a true copy or abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health."
http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/ ... index.html
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren ... 8-0013.htm

[N_Fiddledog]

Conspiracy theories are fun, just to look for where the BS lies.

This is an interesting one

It goes into the history of what they call the 'Birther' conspiracy. It doesn't appear these birthers have a legal leg to stand on. It does seem from that particular article, at least, most of the birthers evidence is twisted, edited, mis-reported and such for support.

They say something interesting at the end of the article. They say even if Obama's actual birth certificate was provided it wouldn't shut the Birthers up. I'm starting to believe that.

It starts to get even more fun when you look at new spin-off conspiracies turning up. For example, photos turned up that claim to be nude photos of Obama's mama.

Here's the actual Obama Mama.



Here's the face of the nude Obama Mama of the claim.



You can get the grittier details (including photos) - from the article linked to - HERE

But why that's interesting in reference to the birther conspiracy is there's a claim the guy who took the pictures is Obama's real father. It's not the African guy. The claim is Obama's real father is somebody called 'Uncle Frank'.

For God's sake, please don't assume I'm trying to pass that off as fact. It's just an interesting sidebar conspiracy.

Speaking of sidebar conspiracies, this one from the left claiming 'Birther' conspiracy originates in the south from what they call 'crackers', with racial intent, also has no apparent legitimacy. Some racists from the south are no doubt attracted to the 'Birther' conspiracy, but conspiracies like this one do not require racial, or southern flavoring to catch on. Many spreading this particular one cannot be stuffed into that pidgeon-hole. In fact 'birther' conspiracy originated from the north, and the political left.

[2Cdo]

I don't like Obama but this is getting foolish. The man is the president and will be for the next 3 years. After that, who knows.

[N_Fiddledog]

True, but I'm starting to enjoy it. I never new it was this much fun.

Although, you know, this bigoted claim which spins from the 'birther conspiracy' tale where anybody who hails from the American south is supposed to be am ignorant, uneducated, racist, and easily hoaxed irritates me. It's hypocritical for one thing. It's bigots making a claim of bigotry. That's what attracted me to this thread. I mean if we're going to dis BS, let's dis BS.

[CommanderSock]

Obama is born in Uganda to an Arab mother and a black supremacist rapist father, that's last week's news.

Anyone who disputes this is just a stupid leftist liberal communist anti-amerikan scum with a hidden agenda to destroy this country.


Or was it Congo?

[Proculation]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Obama is born in Uganda to an Arab mother and a black supremacist rapist father, that's last week's news.

Anyone who disputes this is just a stupid leftist liberal communist anti-amerikan scum with a hidden agenda to destroy this country.


Or was it Congo?

Wrong. It was Liberia and he's muslim.

[Mustang1]

This is the biggest non-issue in the crank bag of stupidity. Barrack Obama is a natural born American citizen - he's been vetted by people a heck of lot brighter than these conspiracy nutjobs "Birthers". Why do people even entertain these dipwad notions - and that goes for the intellectual cowards that take the "i don't know either way so let's just say both sides have points" goof-off stance.

[Thanos]

Apparently CNN management has told Lou Dobbs to keep this Birther garbage off of his show. I saw it yesterday on an article somewhere and I'll try to link up to it here.

EDIT: here ya go http://tinyurl.com/mzks58

Not that I like seeing a reporter being intimidated by corporate head office, but this Birther nonsense isn't news and Dobbs should have known better. It's lies and racist propaganda that's being promulgated by a bunch of psychotics. I know that Dobbs likes to fly the same libertarian flag that Ron Paul does, but the reporter inside of him should have known better. It's as embarrassing to respectable journalism as when Pierre Salinger started spouting the tin hat bullshit about TWA Flight 800 being shot down by a US Navy missile back in 1997.

[SigPig]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

If what he's saying is true, it sounds like a reasonable request. I don't see why making it makes people so angry. I do however see a certain hypocrisy, in vilifying and encouraging hatred towards a group of people, in this case people from the south, based on unsubstantiated claims, such as only they want to see the birth certificate, then calling them the bigots. I've only seen evidence of one group of bigots on this thread so far, and it isn't the people from the south.

Because he already has produced one and therefore doesn't need to again. Secondly, No matter what he gave them, people would still scream forgery or bring up some BS technicality demanding more. It would never end.

And for those who claim he should produce the "long form" of his birth certificate was the same demand made for McCain? How many of these people have even seen the one that Johnny submitted or even cared and just took him at his word?

[N_Fiddledog]

SigPig SigPig:

And for those who claim he should produce the "long form" of his birth certificate was the same demand made for McCain? How many of these people have even seen the one that Johnny submitted or even cared and just took him at his word?

However...if anybody should want to view it it's available.

Here's an astrologer who wanted to see it. If you should be curious as to what an actual American birth certificate looks like he posts a copy. Apparently there was a court case - Hollander versus McCain. The astrologer explains how to get copies of the birth certificate from those court documents.

Now me I'm not so interested in the actual birther conspiracy. What interests me is the indignant, angry response to anybody who dares question The One. Look at all the nitpicky, and outright bogus claims Sarah Palin has had to defend herself against. Where's the indignation from the media there? Where's the attacks on anybody making these silly claims?

McCain didn't have to produce his actual birth certificate (It's explained here). He didn't have to get a legal ruling on his legitimacy to run for president. Suppose he hadn't though. Suppose even further he had then been elected. Would there then be no controversy? I don't think so. You'd have wacky guys all over the internet posting websites saying McCain had no right to the presidency. Would they be getting the same kind of angry 'Shut Up', or 'You're a bigot' response. I doubt it.

[Proculation]

He does speak Arabic instead of Spanish.... That's a sign.

[Scape]

Thanos Thanos:

Apparently CNN management has told Lou Dobbs to keep this Birther garbage off of his show. I saw it yesterday on an article somewhere and I'll try to link up to it here.

EDIT: here ya go http://tinyurl.com/mzks58

Not that I like seeing a reporter being intimidated by corporate head office, but this Birther nonsense isn't news and Dobbs should have known better. It's lies and racist propaganda that's being promulgated by a bunch of psychotics. I know that Dobbs likes to fly the same libertarian flag that Ron Paul does, but the reporter inside of him should have known better. It's as embarrassing to respectable journalism as when Pierre Salinger started spouting the tin hat bullshit about TWA Flight 800 being shot down by a US Navy missile back in 1997.

Is it any wonder why it is Jon Stewart and not Lou Dobbs is now the most trusted man in news?

People like Dobbs need to stop throwing out red meat for ratings and get back to work. I can't fathom why that fossil has a job anyway. We need more hard news and less opinion in news.