[ziggy]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

ziggy ziggy:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

sasquatch2 sasquatch2:

Actually I heated my house quite nicely, for half a day, with an old set of rubber boots.

Nice. Excellent stewardship of the environment there, burning rubber.

So what do you use for heat?

I bet it's Alberta's natural gas but I could be wrong

Yep, it's natural gas. My peak usage so far was just under 12 gigajoules in the month of February last year. It troughed at one GJ in July. CO2 per GJ is about 52kg. 12 GJ then releases 624kg of CO2 into the atmosphere. At $15/tonne, that works out to an extra $9.36 on my HIGHEST gas bill, and jut $0.77 on my lowest. I am PERFECTLY willing to pay that.

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

[ridenrain]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

ridenrain ridenrain:

I can hear it now.. "We'll double the price of oil and shut down the oilsands forever..."
Sure Dion. You, and you're little dog too.

Go away, quanitfy the effect of a $15/tonne carbon tax on the price of a barrel of crude, then come back. Until then, STFU you uneducated hack.

It's just another tax & spend money grab from the big government is best government party.

When the monkey king was enviro-minister for martin, he did nothing but sign the papers and name his dog. Now the sad reality has come home to roost and Canadian taxpayers are stuck with Moe Strong's great wealth sharing, ponzy scheme. While the average usefull idiot gets to salve his white mans guilt for the work his fathers did, the steel mills and machinery of the west stops and soon we're buying are cars and everything else from China. When nothing can actually be made here, what nationality or security can we really have?

Go plant a tree and all you're green friends can dance naked around it singing koom-by-ya if that makes you feel better. Just stay away from politics because you don't get it and the average Canadian dosen't want to pay for you're mistakes.

[hurley_108]

ziggy ziggy:

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Doesn't it get burnt?

No--not here. Landfilled. I don't think the sitaution would be any better if it was inincerated.

Well, if you can recycle more, separate everything, you can burn all the things that can not me melted into something else, or shredded for other purposes...
Actually, you don't burn that much.

I think you completely missed my point.

[Zipperfish]

ziggy ziggy:

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

Why should he thank them? They're getting damn good money, aren't they? I don;'t thank my corner store owner for selling me a newspaper; actually, he usually thanks me for the business.

[ziggy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ziggy ziggy:

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

Why should he thank them? They're getting damn good money, aren't they? I don;'t thank my corner store owner for selling me a newspaper; actually, he usually thanks me for the business.

If he was the only store for a thousand miles and had only one paper you would probably be thanking him.

[Zipperfish]

ziggy ziggy:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ziggy ziggy:

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

Why should he thank them? They're getting damn good money, aren't they? I don;'t thank my corner store owner for selling me a newspaper; actually, he usually thanks me for the business.

If he was the only store for a thousand miles and had only one paper you would probably be thanking him.

Why? Isn't he making a profit? Isn't it a mutually beneficial arrangement?

[hurley_108]

ziggy ziggy:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ziggy ziggy:

Good,thank the newfies who did the pipeline to service you and the Bertans who drilled the nat gas wells.

Why should he thank them? They're getting damn good money, aren't they? I don;'t thank my corner store owner for selling me a newspaper; actually, he usually thanks me for the business.

If he was the only store for a thousand miles and had only one paper you would probably be thanking him.

No, I'd go to my computer and get my news online.

[Brenda]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Doesn't it get burnt?

No--not here. Landfilled. I don't think the sitaution would be any better if it was inincerated.

Well, if you can recycle more, separate everything, you can burn all the things that can not me melted into something else, or shredded for other purposes...
Actually, you don't burn that much.

I think you completely missed my point.

Probably... CAre to explain to this illiterate Dutchy?

[Zipperfish]

Brenda Brenda:

Probably... CAre to explain to this illiterate Dutchy?

Sure... re-read without the reference to landfill...

Zip Zip:

My son got a goody bag at a recent birthday party. In it was alittle plastic game that didn't work. So we had to toss it. That plastic came from oil, likely pulled up from the Middle East somewhere, shipped via tanker and/or pipeline to a chemical plant in China where it was turned into precursors and then sent to a plastics plant (again, probably in China) and then to a manufacturer (again, in China) where it was made into this toy. From there, it would have been put on a large container vessel and sent to North America, and then gone by rail or truck to warehouses throughout North America. Then it was trucked to dollar stores and picked up by consumers, and from there into my son's goody bag. But of course, it didn't work, so it was chucked right away

Regardless of the final dispositoin, it was a complete waste.

[romanP]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Now what was the point of all that?

It was so we can pretend we're more "civilised" than "them."

[romanP]

Brenda Brenda:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Brenda Brenda:

Doesn't it get burnt?

No--not here. Landfilled. I don't think the sitaution would be any better if it was inincerated.

Well, if you can recycle more, separate everything, you can burn all the things that can not me melted into something else, or shredded for other purposes...
Actually, you don't burn that much.

The problem I have with the above three lines of text is that they do not include anywhere the words, or reasonable approximations of, "reduce" or "reuse."

Recycling often takes more energy to reprocess the materials to be recycled than it did to originally process them in their final product. Burning garbage in the new low-emission incinerators is a good idea for electricity, not so good for our natural resources. There are a lot of things that end up in the trash that could be reclaimed, such as various metals, glass, paper and plastics, which are being turned into ash with incinerators. This is not a wise move, and is kind of akin to blasting our trash into the sun.

What we should be doing is focusing on not consuming as much in the first place, and consuming things that are mostly reusable when we do consume. You can't produce more garbage if you don't manufacture or acquire so much stuff in the first place.

[romanP]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

$1:

Imposition of a carbon tax implies significant adjustment problems for a number of key Canadian manufacturing and other industries (such as trucking) which are tightly integrated into the mid-continent manufacturing sector. In markets where Canadian employers must compete with foreign suppliers, the imposition of carbon taxes here, but not in other industries (or at least trading regions), would place domestic companies at a significant competitive disadvantage. This means that domestic jobs would be lost

.

So in essence what this is saying is that if you enforce a carbon tax and don't want to lose jobs to polluting overseas competition you have to reduce taxes to industry and corporations to make them remain competetive.

It doesn't mention what kind of jobs would be lost, or why. This is nothing more than fearmongering and a lack of imagination to find a way to use the funds from the taxes to make jobs in other areas, such as R&D for greener technology and manufacturing it.

$1:

Well guess what happens when industry and corporations get tax reductions. Thats right the tax burden goes back to the ordinary citizen to pick up.

So not only are you paying more for your gas or oil you also get to subsidize big industry and mega corporations, which despite the feel good factor for some people, is pure crap.

Gas and oil should cost more anyway. A lot more. It's unfortunate that making gas more expensive seems to be the only way to get people to reconsider their driving habits, and in doing so makes the oil and gas companies richer, but that seems to be the way the cookie crumbles.

[Wally_Sconce]

$1:

We're Liberals. We actually think about things. We don't take ideological views that don't evolve."

When I read that, I thought once about Bill C-68 and the billion dollar registery and decided that the Liberals are lying to us again.

[saturn_656]

romanP romanP:

Gas and oil should cost more anyway. A lot more. It's unfortunate that making gas more expensive seems to be the only way to get people to reconsider their driving habits, and in doing so makes the oil and gas companies richer, but that seems to be the way the cookie crumbles.

We live in a country where due to its sheer size a personal vehicle is a near must. 99% of the time calls for more taxes on fuel come from the left, who often portray themselves as saviours of the poor and downtrodden.

Guess who boosted fuel taxes are going to hurt the most? Not the business exec driving the Hummer, it'll be the single mom who works at wal mart for min wage who can't take her kids to the rink because she can't afford to fuel her vehicle thanks to the 'greeners and the cries for "more tax!".

And I haven't even gotten to the part where she can't afford to pay her heating bill...