[BRAH]

Thanos Thanos:

Big boobs attached to a creature of pure evil = lethal kryptonite for far too many a man. Although for me it's more their asses.

Don't hate the player hate the game.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Interesting to note that you glossed over how they got into power in the first place. Bold faced lies to get into office.

When? In 2003? If so, I can't wait to hear this one.

OTI OTI:

Lemmy Lemmy:

We've been over this before. All three parties made the same promise to try and secure votes. They all whored for Oakville.

Yes, and you continue to deflect away any blame from the Liberals with the same explanation that doesn't hold water.

Only 1 party tried to cover it up and used the decision mid-campaign to buy votes. Saying you'll do something once elected or would have done prior is far different than pulling the plug mid-election when the election is on the line and then resorting to criminal activity after the fact to cover up what really happened.

I didn't say it was a good thing. Nor would it have been a good thing if the Conservatives had won and followed through by doing the same. Either way, those plants weren't going to get built. So rage on about how the Liberals did it and it was bad, but it doesn't change anything. And how bad was it, really, beyond the optics? $675M seems the popular figure. What's your share? $67. Call it a billion and round it up to $100. Get over it. It was a fuck-up. But a fuck-up that cost you $100. And it was McGuinty's fuck-up, not Wynne's.

OTI OTI:

Lemmy Lemmy:

You don't think the trade missions have been worthwhile? Wynne's done a lot of travelling, selling Ontario. You cheered Rob Ford for doing it for Toronto, didn't you? And Wynne's returned with deals in her hand.

Which deals? The one to India that might create a whopping 150 jobs?

Okay, that one, worth nearly $250M. Also the $1.7B Chinese deal last November and the other Chinese mission in the fall of 2014 that netted $950M and 1500+ expected new jobs. Or the trip to California, also last fall, or the one to Israel slated to happen in April.

OTI OTI:

Lemmy Lemmy:

How about beer/wine regulation/sale?

Doesn't affect me.

But it affects others. It affects small businesses in a positive way. I thought you were a champion of small-business? It also positively affects consumer welfare in the province, even if it doesn't affect yours, specifically.

OTI OTI:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Pan-Am games?
Partnership with Toronto on transit/ expanding GO?

Didn't affect me.

Again, maybe not you, personally, but you support small business, don't you? You have, at times in the past, been vocal about building transit improvements in the GTA. So why not now?

OTI OTI:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teacher contracts?

Before or after they screwed the teachers?

Teachers always get screwed. It comes with the job. Ask them who they think screwed them worse, Wynne or past governments? Not that you give a shit about teachers, so don't expect to play that card and have me believe you care a good goddamn about teachers. But either way, the river's been crossed for the time being and labour peace is in place for the foreseeable future. Surely that's a good thing, no? You sure seemed to think it was when Rob Ford got the garbage workers' contracts ratified.

OTI OTI:

Likely due to the complete lack of anything her government has done beyond run up our debt.

Again with the hyperbole. Nothing except for all the things we've been discussing here today. I get that you don't like her. Neither do I, particularly. But credit where credit is due is not a part of your world. You rip and exaggerate the negative and refuse to concede the positive.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

When? In 2003? If so, I can't wait to hear this one.

Do I really need to remind you the entire host of promises McGuinty made to get into office?

Lemmy Lemmy:

And it was McGuinty's fuck-up, not Wynne's.

Wrong, wrong and wrong! Kathleen was the co-chair of the campaign. The very same campaign team that made the decision to scrap the plants during the election. That decision was a LPO campaign team decision.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Okay, that one, worth nearly $250M. Also the $1.7B Chinese deal last November and the other Chinese mission in the fall of 2014 that netted $950M and 1500+ expected new jobs. Or the trip to California, also last fall, or the one to Israel slated to happen in April.

And if anything comes of these beyond pretty looking press releases, I'll be impressed.

Lemmy Lemmy:

But it affects others. It affects small businesses in a positive way. I thought you were a champion of small-business? It also positively affects consumer welfare in the province, even if it doesn't affect yours, specifically.

Small business? Nothing says small business like Loblaws, Metro Inc, Sobeys and Wal-Mart.

With fixed pricing and packing limits, it's good for convenience but does little to improve consumer welfare.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Again, maybe not you, personally, but you support small business, don't you? You have, at times in the past, been vocal about building transit improvements in the GTA. So why not now?

Transit improvements are a wonder for small business?

Lemmy Lemmy:

Teachers always get screwed. It comes with the job.

Yea, they're so hard done by.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Again with the hyperbole. Nothing except for all the things we've been discussing here today. I get that you don't like her. Neither do I, particularly. But credit where credit is due is not a part of your world. You rip and exaggerate the negative and refuse to concede the positive.

What you consider positive isn't positive to everyone. What effects you may not effect me.

You asked me what things she's done to positively affect my life. That answer, regardless of which party she represents, is zero.

What I find most funny about this discussion is while you continue to say you're not a supporter of Wynne or the various Liberal Parties, you often go through great lengths to explain positives of the various Liberal policies yet never seem to do the same for any other party often expressing your overwhelming hatred for right-wing politicians.

[BeaverFever]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Still 30% fucking morons in Ontario.

Where'd you get the extra 1% from? Did you add in the people who voted Conservative in the last election?

Nah, he just naturally assumed you voted for her twice.

Wow, just one of my votes accounts for 1% of turnout? I mean, sure lots of people would say someone as awesome as me is worth 50,000 of you mere plebes, but unfortunately it's still one person, one vote.

[PluggyRug]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

but unfortunately it's still one person, one vote.

I know they wouldn't let my alter ego place her vote.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Do I really need to remind you the entire host of promises McGuinty made to get into office?

I guess. I don't remember the campaign, but I do remember it coming on the heels of Walkerton and SARS and people were suddenly quite awake about Harris regulatory cuts and cuts to Healthcare. People were genuinely afraid that the Harris's/Eave's cost-cutting was now cutting into public safety. So I don't remember what McGuinty promised but given public sentiment at the time, he likely didn't need to promise much.

OTI OTI:

And if anything comes of these beyond pretty looking press releases, I'll be impressed.

Fair enough.

OTI OTI:

Small business? Nothing says small business like Loblaws, Metro Inc, Sobeys and Wal-Mart.

I was thinking of the craft brewers and independent vintners who now get a leveler playing field on which to market their wares against their corporate competitors.

OTI OTI:

With fixed pricing and packing limits, it's good for convenience but does little to improve consumer welfare.

It's a step in the right direction, surely. And it's an obvious benefit for the grass-roots producers in both industries. Those guys are the real "job creators" and it's those guys who should get a fair chance to compete against the Molsons and Pellers.

OTI OTI:

Transit improvements are a wonder for small business?

Absolutely. Anything that gets your workers to and from the job is a benefit. Anything that makes the city you operate in less gridlocked is a benefit.

OTI OTI:

Yea, they're so hard done by.

There's the teacher-bashing sentiment we know and love from you.

OTI OTI:

What you consider positive isn't positive to everyone. What effects you may not effect me.

Of course not. That's not the point of government. We in rural Ontario have known this since forever. Do you think we like our taxes going to infrastructure in the GTA?

OTI OTI:

You asked me what things she's done to positively affect my life. That answer, regardless of which party she represents, is zero.

If you believe that, well, what can I say?

OTI OTI:

What I find most funny about this discussion is while you continue to say you're not a supporter of Wynne or the various Liberal Parties, you often go through great lengths to explain positives of the various Liberal policies yet never seem to do the same for any other party often expressing your overwhelming hatred for right-wing politicians.

Well I think that's mostly in your head, but I suppose it could be partly that I side with Liberals on social issues, like individuals' rights, justice, environmental/safety regulation, healthcare, education, religion and multiculturalism/racism and those are the topics which predominate on CKA. The fiscal & smaller government issues where I side with righties, like budgets/taxation/civil service, minimum wage/welfare, capital punishment, tend to generate less debate. It's also partly, sorry to say, that the lefties here on CKA do a lot less exaggerating. Case in point, just scroll up to where you mentioned the 150-job Indian trade mission, but ignored the $250M that went along with the jobs and further ignored the Chinese deals that are expected to net $2B and 2,000 jobs. Talk about cherry picking or hearing only what you want to hear! But I can recall numerous times when I've jumped in on lefty circlejerks around subjects like minimum wages, taxes, etc to add some objectivity. I know I've stepped into many anti-Harper threads to get the lefties to acknowledge Harper's successes. But maybe you're right. Either way, the next time I do what you say I don't do enough, I'll be sure to mention this discussion so you'll remember that I do rip lefties when they exaggerate or get their facts wrong. I'm an equal-opportunity rhetoric slasher.

It's the same with the whole anti-Trudeau shit people have been spewing since the fall. I'm no fan of JT. I questioned his abilities as much as anyone. Hell, I authored the "Fredo Corleone" metaphor that you've used yourself! But now that he's the PM, I'm gonna do everything I can to take the wind out of partisan rhetoric against him, not because I support him, his party or his government but because I prefer to deal in facts, not political mudslinging.