[BeaverFever]

From what I understand, it's not correct to say they pass kids who can't do the work. Instead the student fails the incomplete subjects subject instead of failing an entire grade.

So a grade 4 student who can't complete grade 4 math, next year he'll be a grade 5 student who is still doing grade 4 math.

[fifeboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

From what I understand, it's not correct to say they pass kids who can't do the work. Instead the student fails the incomplete subjects subject instead of failing an entire grade.

So a grade 4 student who can't complete grade 4 math, next year he'll be a grade 5 student who is still doing grade 4 math.

Not in my experience. Younger kids are given passing marks in all subjects. The next teacher who gets them just had marks. One learns quickly to be suspicious of students with 50-55% marks, suspecting a markup to pass. I really wished we had standardized test marks to look at.
When I was in school, we were "streamed" into, and I forget the terms used, slow, regular or advanced classes. I suggested this to my Director of Education one time. He looked at me like I had just stepped off an intergalactic spaceship.

[BeaverFever]

I'm sure it varies by province and school board. My wife is a grade 6 teacher and her schoolboard has integrated classrooms instead of streaming and the teacher does something called Individulazed Education Plan or IEP for the students who are too smart to or too slow for the curriculum, which is geared toward the average person. I think it may only be officially called IEP for the slow kids though but the teachers are supposed to give more advanced work to the smarter ones.

Reason being that some kids aren't really dumber than the others, they're just late bloomers and removing them from the classroom into a dumb kid stream might actually lower the bar for them and make a temporary problem permanent.

And actually forcing kids to leave their peers to repeat a full year alongside younger students is bad for them and the younger students. Imagine a 12-year old siting in a classroom full of seven year olds because he couldn't master the core subjects of second grade. Not only is he academically challenged but he's going to miss out on developing age appropriate social skills and going to become a weirdo.

[fifeboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I'm sure it varies by province and school board. My wife is a grade 6 teacher and her schoolboard has integrated classrooms instead of streaming and the teacher does something called Individulazed Education Plan or IEP for the students who are too smart to or too slow for the curriculum, which is geared toward the average person. I think it may only be officially called IEP for the slow kids though but the teachers are supposed to give more advanced work to the smarter ones.

Reason being that some kids aren't really dumber than the others, they're just late bloomers and removing them from the classroom into a dumb kid stream might actually lower the bar for them and make a temporary problem permanent.

And actually forcing kids to leave their peers to repeat a full year alongside younger students is bad for them and the younger students. Imagine a 12-year old siting in a classroom full of seven year olds because he couldn't master the core subjects of second grade. Not only is he academically challenged but he's going to miss out on developing age appropriate social skills and going to become a weirdo.

The idea of IEP was just gaining speed when I retired. It sounds good but time will tell. It helps to have a smallish class when working like that and EA's help too. One thing education never was was boring.

[andyt]

A 12 y o sitting in second grade would indicate a severe problem, and just passing that student along sure isn't going to be doing him any favors either. What's that kid going to be doing all day, since he can't participate with what's being taught. LIkely the other kids are going to be pretty rough on him as well.

[BeaverFever]

andyt andyt:

A 12 y o sitting in second grade would indicate a severe problem, and just passing that student along sure isn't going to be doing him any favors either. What's that kid going to be doing all day, since he can't participate with what's being taught. LIkely the other kids are going to be pretty rough on him as well.

Well that's an extreme example but even just 2 years difference is significant at those young ages.

And they're not necessarily socially inept. My wife is always talking about one IEP kid in her grade 6 class who can barely read at all, but he's also the "cool" kid that all the other kids look up to. Even though he often gets into mischief, apparently some teachers still like him because he's got the little charmer "ladies man" personality. Apparently there are always a few IEPs in every class, some have shortcomings that would be obvious to other students, ithers not obvious and the other students wouldn't be aware.

Like Fife indicated my wife's school has smaller classes and EAs. I don't know how it works out for the students in terms of lectures or group work when you have people at different levels but the individual school work is customized to learning ability for those above or below the average ability.

[andyt]

I was responding more to the extreme example, which given current practices might not be that implausible. In BC, the govt keeps trying to up class sizes while cutting back on EAs. Basically BC is implementing the Harper vision of degrading health care and education to the point people are willing to opt for a private system instead.

[Brenda]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

the teachers are supposed to give more advanced work to the smarter ones.

But they don't.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

But seeing as you are not a scientist, you aren't really in a position to know. If I stuck a bunch of equations in front of you, chances are you wouldn't know if they were true or false. So you lack the competence to make that assessment.

What degrees or certifications makes one a 'scientist'?

What profession makes one a 'scientist'?

I am a computer scientist and I have the degree from Northwestern to prove it. I also have the job that goes with it. And I'm good at it which is why I spend most of my day monitoring and very little of my day fixing anything.

And perhaps some of your equations would be unknown to me but I've used trajectory formulas and load formulas for years.

Give me a GPS coordinate and I can calculate what it will take to accurately ruin your day.

And then I can ruin your day because unlike many scientists I've been known to put theory into practice.

Reported to mods. Done wiht your veiled threats.