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CKA Elite
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 7:43 pm
 


What I am saying is that this had less to do with politics and more to do with circumstance. What was said by individual politicians can absolutely be viewed as hypocritical since it is the role of the politician to become the epitome of what they believe they populace desires at that moment. The thruth though is that the populace is far more self serving, aiming to support themselves or their families and so their voting patterns are more elastic than the views of the politicians who serve their needs at the time.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 8:05 pm
 


OH. I thought you were referring to that typical right wing trait of proudly declaring you stand on your won two feet when things go well for you, then snuffle up to the government (that you despise) trough when they don't.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 8:14 pm
 


Certainly, humility is a direction, not a destination.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 8:25 pm
 


Well, as someone who is self employed I'm sure the andy's out there will be cheered up by my being completely ineligible for any government help at all, provincial or federal, even if I end up living on the street.

Them big liberal hearts, gotta love the when they reveal their true inclinations and character.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 8:39 pm
 


Well not personally. I actually give a shit what happens to people. I owe a lot to strangers, without getting into it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:03 pm
 


:D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 pm
 


This just in from the Saskatchewan Alberta border. 8O


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 11:10 pm
 


:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:52 am
 


Delwin Delwin:
Certainly, humility is a direction, not a destination.


I proudly declare that I'm headed in that direction, all of the time!


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:39 am
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Delwin Delwin:
Certainly, humility is a direction, not a destination.


I proudly declare that I'm headed in that direction, all of the time!



And yet, you never seem to get any closer to it.

:lol: :lol:


[B-o] [B-o]


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:19 am
 


Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
bootlegga bootlegga:
If that were the case, I'd take Ralphie's advice to "Shoot, shovel and shut up!" :twisted:

It was Ralph's gutlessness that ultimately led to last night's loss to the NDP.

If he hadn't brought in the flat tax, promised to get rid of health care premiums, handed out Ralph Bucks and worst of all, raided the Heritage Trust Fund for $15+ billion, the government wouldn't have been in the financial pickle it was.


Pull the other one!

Allison Redford, put the province in a tailspin and Prentice called an election early because he wanted 4 years instead of 1 to push through his budget and thought his reelection was a slam dunk.


Again, had Klein kept depositing 30% of resource revenues and not withdrawing every penny of interest the HTF generated, it would be far larger than it is today and could have been used by Redford to deal with the 'bitumen bubble'. Same goes for slashing revenues by bringing in the flat income tax, which has robbed the government of billions of dollars of tax revenues. Getting rid of the health care premiums cost the government another $1.2 billion each year. Ralph bucks cost the province another $1.2 billion, though it was a one-time payout.

The faithful may hate when someone has the gall to denigrate Saint Ralph, but facts are facts. His policies, popular though they were, have played a huge factor in decline of the PCs over the past decade.

Sure, hubris and arrogance on the part of Redford and Prentice played a big part too - but if any of Ralph's successors had had a savings account of $150-200 billion to draw on as Peter Lougheed envisioned when it was created, the deficits under Stelmach and Redford never would have happened. Same goes for Prentice's unpopular budget.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:35 am
 


Voter turnout was 57%. Sad, but the highest in 22 years, so there is a little ray of sunshine there.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:26 am
 


Ahh, the shredding trucks outside the Legislature Annex are a sight to behold. All the Ministers think they are Col. Oliver North today.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:28 am
 


Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:40 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
Again, had Klein kept depositing 30% of resource revenues and not withdrawing every penny of interest the HTF generated, it would be far larger than it is today and could have been used by Redford to deal with the 'bitumen bubble'. Same goes for slashing revenues by bringing in the flat income tax, which has robbed the government of billions of dollars of tax revenues. Getting rid of the health care premiums cost the government another $1.2 billion each year. Ralph bucks cost the province another $1.2 billion, though it was a one-time payout.

The faithful may hate when someone has the gall to denigrate Saint Ralph, but facts are facts. His policies, popular though they were, have played a huge factor in decline of the PCs over the past decade.

Sure, hubris and arrogance on the part of Redford and Prentice played a big part too - but if any of Ralph's successors had had a savings account of $150-200 billion to draw on as Peter Lougheed envisioned when it was created, the deficits under Stelmach and Redford never would have happened. Same goes for Prentice's unpopular budget.


Without the royalty discount on oil sands development most of those projects wouldn't have been built at all though. They cost far more than conventional drilling does and the companies needed that reduced royalty rate to make their first few years of revenue worth it against the cost of project development. Half of those companies in the oil sands still aren't making much in the way of profit, even with the discounted royalties. Take a look at CNRL as one of the worst examples, where even at $100 per barrel the dopey fuckers were still in all kinds of trouble (mostly from their piss-poor management but also from the open sore they created for themselves by choosing their Horizon mega-project to be open-pit instead of a SAGD).

No royalty discount meant that a lot of those projects never would have ever seen the light of day, which in turn would have meant none of the employment prospects that those projects in turn created, which in turn then meant that the standard amount of income tax taken off those paycheques would never have happened, and then in turn the type of spending (both for basics & necessities as well as disposable) by those workers never would have happened either. It's not a case of the government having deliberately ripped itself off on royalties and taxes, it's far more that without the royalty discount the remaining royalties and then all the accrued taxes never would have happened at all. And without that there would have been none of the belated infrastructure development that was delayed not just because of the Klein cutbacks but also because the low oil prices and horrible job market of the 1990's wasn't capable of creating that tax revenue either.

In reality Alberta didn't live high on the hog until the effects of the Sept 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and then the 2003 invasion of Iraq caused the first wave of massive price spikes on oil. Then it partially collapsed again in 2008 with the Wall Street meltdown, a diminishing of demand for Alberta's product in the US thanks to the runaway development of Bakken, and then a full collapse in recent months again thanks to the Saudis opening their taps wide. And, hovering above it all, was the near total collapse of the natural gas market, that used to provide as much royalty revenue as oil did, which has been going on for almost a decade now. All in all, if you start your timeline at about 1990 or so, the market (both in terms of oil price and employment demand) in Alberta has been half-good and half-bad. As such gains made in any good year were pretty much balanced out by a bad year. And tax or take too many royalties in a bad year and you're pretty much ensuring that the next good year is delayed at best or completely negated at worst.

This isn't a defense of the Klein years. It's just that, flaws and all, pinning the entire blame on the decisions of that era is pretty short sighted and doesn't even take into account decisions (e.g. what the Saudis have done lately) or events (e.g. Sept 11) that were completely uncontrollable by anyone in the Alberta government. It's just as legitimate to argue that a set and inflexible tax & royalty regime would have caused as much suppression of the Alberta job market as it is that a too-flexible royalty regime has drained the place dry of government revenues. This place is a roller coaster, and always will be. Taking what works somewhere else (like the system that works for Norway's off-shore system or Texas' prodigious conventional drilling/collection system) will work as effectively in Alberta really doesn't have much of a logical basis to stand on.


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