[commanderkai]

desertdude desertdude:

Totally ignoring the fact its a tribal thing in Nigeria and happens in Christian communities too, did you just "Alienate" and "irritate" "just about everybody who might have Muslim leanings, or even a basic acceptance or respect of Islam in their heritage or life". Of course you didn't

Except this story happened in the northern parts of Nigeria, which is predominantly Muslim.

Even so, you are correct, hopefully it starts a trend in the many parts of the world where forced child marriages are common. In Nigeria, forced child marriages happen most commonly in the impoverished, predominantly Muslim north, but you are correct that this trend does not happen just in the Muslim world.

Hopefully this story starts a trend in all of those countries and cultures where such forced marriages exist.

[andyt]

Let's hope Canada and the US are on that list. Not just for Muslims who take the girls back home to be married, but for our homegrown child bride Christian folks as well.

[desertdude]

andyt andyt:

Yeah but Islam isn't a real religion and Muslims aren't real people.

That said tho, DD, Islam really needs to get its act together here. Iran just passed a law allowing marriage (for girls) at nine. So it's certainly not just a tribal thing in Nigeria. It's a bit of a problem when the founder of your religion was marrying young girls himself. You should emulate our guy and just go with prostitutes.

Iran or Saudi or any other country for that matter, Their laws do not automatically mean that they are part or tenets of Islam, no matter how much they would wish to be. In fact Saudi and Iran are guilty of having laws most against the tenets of Islam.

For the second bit first of all it wasn't young girls it was just one young girl, it was normal practice back in the day worldwide, just look back 100 or so years in your own culture and its pretty much common and still going on in some section of your society. Trying to hold 1400 year cultural practices to your own present time morals is a bit of a folly.

Just because dirty old men today try to justify their lust with it you cannot blame Islam for it. Also while we are at it, Islam allows one to have multiple wives but its sets the conditions to that so high its almost a catch 22, almost impossible to fulfill. But of course many horny goats disregard those and just focus on the more than one wife bit. Also if you want to emulate the prophet except Ayesha all his other wives were widows and of age. That bit also is conveniently disregarded by many.

Hope that clarifies things a little better for you Andy

[commanderkai]

andyt andyt:

Let's hope Canada and the US are on that list. Not just for Muslims who take the girls back home to be married, but for our homegrown child bride Christian folks as well.

Obviously so, but generally, we make the legal age for consent (and I believe marriage) 16 and above, and 99% of the Christian populations in North America don't force their children to marry, let alone marry young in some sort of dowry deal (seriously, I don't ever hear of Christian dowries). The extremist element is a problem, but we as a society do take steps to prosecute and minimize such actions, and attempting to label this as a common Christian practice in North America just highlights your clouded judgment.

[andyt]

Did I say it was common, or are you just in your own cloud? Or try this, since you like to play that game: your attempt to minimize Christian behavior while tarring all Muslims with the same brush just speaks of how biased you really are. This is the kind of shit you throw at me, so here, have some back.

We don't prosecute them in BC, despite the huge outcry, because the govt isn't sure it would pass the Charter.

The Muslims I was talking about were Canadians ones who ship their girls back home into forced marriages. I get no cred from you for criticizing Muslims.

YOu and your ilk should really take a page from Wildrosegirl's book. She's certainly no bleeding heart liberal, but believes in cleaning up her own backyard instead of pointing fingers at others. You know, about the mote and the log in people's eyes. Somebody famous had something to say about that.

[commanderkai]

andyt andyt:

Did I say it was common, or are you just in your own cloud? Or try this, since you like to play that game: your attempt to minimize Christian behavior while tarring all Muslims with the same brush just speaks of how biased you really are. This is the kind of shit you throw at me, so here, have some back.

We don't prosecute them in BC, despite the huge outcry, because the govt isn't sure it would pass the Charter.

What Christian behavior am I minimizing? I admit that they probably do exist, but are considered (and are) extremist and usually are either prosecuted, or do so with scorn from society.

The group you mentioned, the one in Bountiful, British Columbia, are an extremist Mormon group practicing both polygamy and child marriage (and possibly smuggling girls across the border). More interestingly, the BC government is doing something, unless they stopped their probe and investigation between 2012 and now:

$1:

The 2011 Reference asked if the criminalization of polygamy is consistent with the s. 2a of the Charter (freedom of religion). The court found that s. 293 of the Criminal Code is a violation of s. 2a of the Charter; however, it concluded that the violation was justified by Section 1 because of the harms that polygamy causes to women, children, and society in general. It further concluded that it is legitimate for Parliament to act proactively to prevent harm. The BC government has indicated that it is satisfied with this outcome and that it is not planning to appeal to the Supreme Court for a comprehensive decision. In March 2012, it cleared the way for assessment of an ongoing RCMP investigation to begin. This will determine if there is sufficient evidence for polygamy charges to be brought against Blackmore and others

http://www.beyondborders.org/wp/wp-cont ... Canada.pdf

"Christian folks" as you stated, literally means Christian people, as in all Christians in Canada and the United States, and not just the extreme elements of fundamentalist Christianity and Mormonism. Watch your wording in the future if you don't want to be called out on such statements.

$1:

The Muslims I was talking about were Canadians ones who ship their girls back home into forced marriages. I get no cred from you for criticizing Muslims.

I don't think the child bride problem is a major one by Muslims in Canada either. It's a societal problem. We in North America look down, and even proactively prosecute such actions, while other societies, like those in Africa (both Christian, tribal, and Muslim areas), the Middle East, and Central Asia have huge cultural and societal problems with child marriage. And although some might try to bring their practices here, generally most Muslim and African immigrants will conform to the standard practice here of marrying within a reasonable age gap, and certainly not marry more than one bride.

[andyt]

YOu need to take remedial reading. Or comprehension. When I say child bride Christian folk, does that really mean all Christians, or just the ones that take child brides? Christ no wonder you act the way you do, you don't comprehend very well. You have no such qualms for statements about Muslims acts, but with Christians you want me to put in a disclaimer that when I say child bride Christian folk I in no way mean all Christians but only those that take child brides? I look forward to your angry posts next time FD or Martin or half the board make comments about Muslims and don't insert the same disclaimer. You need to take a course in normal conversation. But they you're really just looking to pick at something here because it makes you unhappy to have pointed out we're not so lilly pure either. And that's happening right here in our country, not in another nation, where what they do is really up to them. Unless you want to go crusading to bring your truth and light to them?

[commanderkai]

I'm getting sick of you right now, so, gloves off.

andyt andyt:

YOu need to take remedial reading. Or comprehension. When I say child bride Christian folk, does that really mean all Christians, or just the ones that take child brides?

Oh, I see. I'm the one with the problem here, because I'm reading what you say, and somehow misunderstood the meaning of folks.

Let's go to the dictionary, shall we!

$1:

1 archaic : a group of kindred tribes forming a nation : people
2: the great proportion of the members of a people that determines the group character and that tends to preserve its characteristic form of civilization and its customs, arts and crafts, legends, traditions, and superstitions from generation to generation
3 plural : a certain kind, class, or group of people <old folks> <just plain folk> <country folk> <media folk>
4 plural : people generally

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/folks

Well shit, using the definition of the meaning of "folks", how surprising when you say Christian folks, it comes off as the majority of Christians! Fuck, definitions are hard, right?

Oh, but it's my fault because you have absolutely no history of labeling all Christians as somehow being stuck in a 1500 BC mindset, somehow following the Old Testament while TOTALLY ignoring the New Testament, and that whole "Jesus Christ" part. Yeah, Jesus Christ isn't a big part of Christianity, I keep forgetting.

$1:

Christ no wonder you act the way you do, you don't comprehend very well. You have no such qualms for statements about Muslims acts, but with Christians you want me to put in a disclaimer that when I say child bride Christian folk I in no way mean all Christians but only those that take child brides?

Hey, definitions matter! They're pretty important when you explain things and write things out. Don't get pissy at me that you don't know the definition of folks, and when you write words, you don't actually know what they mean or imply.

$1:

I look forward to your angry posts next time FD or Martin or half the board make comments about Muslims and don't insert the same disclaimer.

Oh. I see now. You do it because they do it, or something. So...you do it as some idiotic counter to Fiddle and Martin, and so when you get called out on your bullshit, you just say "BUT BUT THEY DO IT TOO!". Ahh, I see now. Two wrongs make a right, right?

So instead of not making yourself look like a moron, and actually counter their alleged points or even call them out on their statements, you just stoop down to their supposed level as some counterpoint! HOW ENLIGHTENED! ROUND OF APPLAUSE.



Oh, but, I must get angry for everybody? Sure, let me have an aneurysm. Listen, if you can give a shit enough to randomly find some modern extremist Christian, or historical Western culture parallel to contemporary, widespread issues in the Muslim world, how about you actually address their points using evidence without opening up a red herring fish stand. The thing is, you even know issues like female circumcision and child marriage are serious issues, no matter the culture, and I will admit, I was not aware of the radical Mormon sect in Bountiful, British Columbia. Admittedly, with a quick Google search, I found out the B.C. government is actually trying something, even though we're probably not privy to it.

$1:

You need to take a course in normal conversation. But they you're really just looking to pick at something here because it makes you unhappy to have pointed out we're not so lilly pure either. And that's happening right here in our country, not in another nation, where what they do is really up to them. Unless you want to go crusading to bring your truth and light to them?

WELL SHIT! LOOK AT THAT. I've said those exact words. I have said that Canada, and the United States, and Christianity today are not perfect! It looks like you can actually read. But, see, in Canada, we have things called laws to try to make things better, with a bureaucracy to try to make it happen. You know that stuff about the 1000 radical Mormons in Bumfuck, British Columbia? Guess what? The religious authorities (aka, the mainstream Church of Latter Day Saints) basically exiled them, and secular authorities are investigating them (as I posted with that article). What more can we do in North America? Not much short of an Inquisition.

As for the Muslim world (oh and the Hindu one, and North Korea, and China, and Africa, and Russia, and Europe, and the rest of Asia, and South America), how many fucking times have I said that unless we start calling up Crusades because Deus Vult, nothing is going to change, unless they change themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I'll have absolutely no problem with seeing the guy in this case, and the leaders of that Mormon cult burning in hell, and hey, if they somehow end up there faster? Psh, I won't give a shit. Same goes with the Nigerian child raping douchefuck the girl murdered. I'd kill them myself, but that'd make me some radical Christian going all Old Testament on people, right?

See, I hope we see more stories where forced child brides decide to do something to try to save themselves being in a disgusting situation. I still sincerely hope that Syria will end up, after their bloody mess, like Tunisia, which is seemingly turning out alright, and where an elected Islamist government stepped down peacefully! That's progress! That's a sign that, for the flaws of modern Islam, it's not fucking hopeless, and Muslims themselves can, and will make their position better for their wives, daughters, and hold their imams and politicians accountable.

I fucking hope so. So you know what? Even though we disagree, and we do. Often, on about everything, you're a bit better than the stupid anti-Christian bullshit I'm seeing all the time from you lately. If you brought up this Mormon cult to raise awareness, then I'd agree they're a problem, but you didn't. Don't pretend otherwise. You brought it up for the same reason you brought up 19th century European doctors performing female circumcision as some laughable red herring to current, 21st century female circumcision done by North African immigrants (mostly Muslim, but truthfully, they are not solely responsible, just the largest percentage of those conducting these acts) from a few weeks back. You know that's a big fucking deal, and yet, instead of reasonably addressing it, and countering whatever perceived bigotry you saw against Muslims in that thread. Right now though, you're borderline trolling, so don't be surprised when people get sick of it.

[andyt]

I just read your first couple of sentences. Look numbnuts, what I wrote was child+bride+Christian+folk. (Sound it out to yourself as you read it, that will help.) Those are the folk I was referring to, the child bride taking Christians. it leaves out all Christians who are not into child brides.

But you want to get into histrionics, go for it. What I see you doing is exactly what you accuse DD of, except you're too blind to see it. And at least his reading comprehension is excellent, he doesn't whine about nothing.

Do you know how silly you come off, claiming to know what I meant (and any fool could understand) better than I do?

Put your gloves back on before you hurt yourself.

[2Cdo]

Hey commander, don't waste your time and effort on andy. All he's good for is fetching people a coffee and donut. Fucking waste of oxygen he is.

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Hey commander, don't waste your time and effort on andy. All he's good for is fetching people a coffee and donut. Fucking waste of oxygen he is.

Holy shit.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Hey commander, don't waste your time and effort on andy. All he's good for is fetching people a coffee and donut. Fucking waste of oxygen he is.

Holy shit.

Was I too subtle for you?

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Yeah but Islam isn't a real religion and Muslims aren't real people.

That said tho, DD, Islam really needs to get its act together here. Iran just passed a law allowing marriage (for girls) at nine. So it's certainly not just a tribal thing in Nigeria. It's a bit of a problem when the founder of your religion was marrying young girls himself. You should emulate our guy and just go with prostitutes.

Islam didn't do it, individuals did it. Blaming Islam for that is like blaming Christianity for the acts of David Koresh or Jim Jones.

Last time I checked, lunatics were running the asylum in Iran.

[andyt]

Ultimately then you can't blame any religion for the acts of its followers unless the religion specifically tells them to do those acts. And that gets complicated. I don't know much about the Qur'an, but have certainly seen passages quoted that say to do some pretty horrific things. Same with the OT. Supposedly Jesus obviated the OT, but why then keep it?

Alright, let's not blame religion, but only what people do in the name of it. But certainly there seem to be way more nutbars doing evil in the name of Islam than any other religion. And where their co-religionists need to step up more is condemning that unequivocally. There are lots of Christians who criticize what's done in the name of Christianity than there are Muslims doing same for their religion.

[ShepherdsDog]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Yeah but Islam isn't a real religion and Muslims aren't real people.

That said tho, DD, Islam really needs to get its act together here. Iran just passed a law allowing marriage (for girls) at nine. So it's certainly not just a tribal thing in Nigeria. It's a bit of a problem when the founder of your religion was marrying young girls himself. You should emulate our guy and just go with prostitutes.

Islam didn't do it, individuals did it. Blaming Islam for that is like blaming Christianity for the acts of David Koresh or Jim Jones.

Last time I checked, lunatics were running the asylum in Iran.

As has been pointed out before, the big problem with Christians is that they don't follow the teachings of Christ, and what's wrong with Muslims is that they do follow the teachings of Mohammed.