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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:29 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Regina Regina:
I feel like I'm missing something here. Why is it wrong to prove you are who you say you are when voting?


Gotta admit that I'm having a hard time disagreeing with that. If government issued ID is all that is needed, then get on with getting your ID. If, however, the act is moving the goalposts and stating that the ID you need must have your address and the government issued ID does not have that, then there is a problem.

My SIN and provincial health card do not have my address, for example. Without a DL, (see student) then what?


The act is NOT suggesting you need your address on your ID. That is false.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:43 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
The act is NOT suggesting you need your address on your ID. That is false.


$1:
The proposed Fair Elections Act does not require voters to present photo ID. Rather, it asks for two pieces of ID, both with a name and one with an address.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/fai ... -1.2603857


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:57 am
 


andyt andyt:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
The act is NOT suggesting you need your address on your ID. That is false.


$1:
The proposed Fair Elections Act does not require voters to present photo ID. Rather, it asks for two pieces of ID, both with a name and one with an address.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/fai ... -1.2603857


If that is indeed the case, which I'm not convinced it is, the 15% of Canadians that don't have a drivers license, can use one of the following:

-Utility bill (telephone, TV, PUC, hydro, gas or water)
-Bank/credit card statement
-Vehicle ownership/insurance
-Correspondence issued by a school, college or university
-Statement of government benefits (employment insurance, old age security, social assistance, disability support or child tax benefit)
-Attestation of residence issued by the responsible authority of a First Nations band or reserve
-Government cheque or cheque stub
-Pension plan statement of benefits, contributions or participation
-Residential lease/mortgage statement
-Income/property tax assessment notice
-Insurance policy
-Letter from a public curator, public guardian or public trustee
-One of the following, issued by the responsible authority of a shelter, soup kitchen, student/senior residence, or long-term care facility: attestation of residence, letter of stay, admission form or statement of benefits

Vouching isn't necessary.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:02 am
 


Caleb makes some pretty persuasive arguments why vouching is a bad idea. But personally I also don't think vouching is a good idea. As I read it that's the only change to the id requirement, ie the current two of three options remain in place:

Option 1

Show one original piece of identification with your photo, name and address. It must be issued by a government agency.

Example: driver's licence.

Option 2

Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have your name and one must also have your address.

Example: health card and hydro bill.



I'm much more concerned about taking away powers from the Chief Electoral officer instead of expanding them.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:10 am
 


"I'm much more concerned about taking away powers from the Chief Electoral officer instead of expanding them."

This too is my bugaboo. :(


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:15 am
 


The Cons almost got caught with voting fraud, they don't want that to happen again (getting caught).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:51 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Regina Regina:
I feel like I'm missing something here. Why is it wrong to prove you are who you say you are when voting?


Gotta admit that I'm having a hard time disagreeing with that. If government issued ID is all that is needed, then get on with getting your ID. If, however, the act is moving the goalposts and stating that the ID you need must have your address and the government issued ID does not have that, then there is a problem.

My SIN and provincial health card do not have my address, for example. Without a DL, (see student) then what?


I don't have a problem with it either. I just have a problem with disenfranchising people who have the right to vote, while doing nothing to prevent people who don't have that right to vote.

Remember, you don't need to be a citizen to get a drivers license.

eg:
$1:
Residency Requirements

In order to obtain an Alberta driver’s licence or identification card, you must provide proof that you are lawfully entitled to reside in Canada (i.e. Canadian birth certificate, Permanent Resident Card, Citizenship Card, Canadian Passport) and proof that you are an Alberta resident (i.e. utility bills or other statements mailed to your Alberta address). Printouts or statements obtained electronically that do not directly link you to a physical address (unlike utility bills or land line telephone bills) are not acceptable as they do not prove that you are actually a resident at that physical address. The documents must contain your full name, address and have an issue date of less than than 90 days to ensure the information is reasonably current. A registry agent cannot issue you a driver’s licence or identification card unless they are fully satisfied that you are a legal resident of both Canada and Alberta.


http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/1305.cfm


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:54 am
 


The id just shows who you are and where you live. You have to be registered to vote, ie be on the list, then use your id to prove you are the person on the list.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:03 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Remember, you don't need to be a citizen to get a drivers license.

That's exactly what I always thought was flawed in our system. Up until a few years ago my wife shouldn't have been able to vote. She was a landed immigrant and although she has been here since she was 6 or 7 shouldn't have voted...........right up to the time I squealed on her. :lol:
My personal opinion which has nothing to do with this bill at all, is that anyone voting should be a legitimate voter and should have to prove it at some point in the process. If it's at the voting station or when they come around to the door to see who lives there or whenever. Also knowing that overall voter turnout of 61.4% in 2011, how many would this actually effect? I bet it would be significantly less than .00001% of the total population.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:14 am
 


Regina Regina:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Remember, you don't need to be a citizen to get a drivers license.
Also knowing that overall voter turnout of 61.4% in 2011, how many would this actually effect? I bet it would be significantly less than .00001% of the total population.


$1:
Democratic Rights

3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html

It should affect 0% of the population. I wouldn't accept the loss of any Charter Rights or Freedoms. . . 'just because'. If citizen loses the right to vote, it affects me just as if they had lost the right to freely associate or the right to not be subjected to arbitrary detention without charge.

They might not use the right to enter or leave Canada, but that doesn't mean it should be taken away from them.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 am
 


There are impediments to voting other than id. The trapper you mentioned not being able to get to a voting place. Shut ins. Not having a baby sitter, what have you. None take away your right to vote. Neither does having to have ID - you just have to get off your duff and get some.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:36 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
All Canadians have the proper documentation to vote.

There are 39 forms of acceptable ID's you can use to vote and that will not change. The suggestion that they will now need to contain an address is false.


http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

According to Elections Canada (above) ID with an address is required.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:41 am
 


andyt andyt:
There are impediments to voting other than id. The trapper you mentioned not being able to get to a voting place. Shut ins. Not having a baby sitter, what have you. None take away your right to vote. Neither does having to have ID - you just have to get off your duff and get some.


You do realize the legal difference between a person being unable or not wanting to vote, and a government taking away their right to vote?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:46 am
 


I don't see them taking away that right. They just have to meet the requirements for ID, which is easily obtainable.

What if the person can't find anybody with ID to vouch for them. Homeless people for instance. And how much is that vouching worth, how much does the voucher really know about the person they are vouching for.

In fact homeless people don't have an address, yet manage to vote. I wonder how they do that?

I don't see this any differently than requiring women to remove their veils to vote, tho if no pic id is required, I don't see the point.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:52 am
 


Hard to believe that in this day and age that not having some form of proper ID is acceptable. Even harder to believe that there are some out there who are not going to have even a single one of the types of permissible ID's that are listed by both the feds and the provinces. And this is nothing at all like what the Republicans are doing in the US, where they demand government-issued ID for certain demographics but then deliberately block the government from issuing those kinds of ID at all due to a sudden need for "budget cuts" or some other on-the-fly partisan nonsense. No ID, no vote, period. And I can't believe that vouching is allowed at all. Isn't that what his "friends" did to Edgar Allen Poe the night he died? Got him shitfaced on election day, took him around to a dozen different polling stations, and "vouched" for him at each one so he could vote multiple times while he was so drunk he couldn't even walk? What a load of BS. :evil:


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