[stratos]

peck420 peck420:

stratos stratos:

What i'm about to say is very old Data, 2-3yrs at least, but I remember hearing a report that the ICE car batteries needed to be replaced about every year. Most cars had 4 batteries and each battery cost from 5k-7k.
Like I said this is old info and i'm going off memory so it might not have been as many batteries per car but the 5k-7k per battery is what sticks in my head the most.

Whoa! That is old news

First off, batteries are not rated on distance driven, or time. They are rated on how many times they drain to a certain capacity. So, if you keep your car highly charged, all the time (80%+) you would probably never have to replace a battery...ever. But, if you drop it to 20% or less, you may require replacement far sooner.

Second, batteries vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, Tesla claims that the Model S contains 1 battery...however, that battery (in the big pack) consist of 7,000 Li-Ion independent cells...so it could be argued that it contains far more then one battery.

That specific battery, by Tesla's definition, will cost around $10k to replace and has an expected life of 8 years. That amounts to $1,250/year...far less then the savings on gas per year.

Thanks for the update like I said it was OLD lol

[stratos]

$1:

They are rated on how many times they drain to a certain capacity. So, if you keep your car highly charged, all the time (80%+) you would probably never have to replace a battery...ever. But, if you drop it to 20% or less, you may require replacement far sooner.

so the basic math of 200-300 miles a charge is misleading. For if you want to keep the battery and not have to replace it often you would actualy have to drive far less miles per charging.

[stratos]

Not trying to back you into a corner Peck. I'm just wanting to get a clear understanding of what one is realy getting when they purchase a EC.

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

I'm trying real hard to figure out how this is different for any type of vehicle?

You don't know anyone who owns a 2nd-hand pickup truck, do you?

peck420 peck420:

It is my understanding from my own experience, and every other person I know personal (regardless of vehicle type) that the day your warranty expires, get out...your wallet or of your car.

There is nothing on an electric car that is not comparable in cost/function to an ICE vehicle, just different names and different costs at different times.

If electric vehicles were truly comparable to ICE vehicles then they'd be able to go 300,000 miles without any major repairs just like no end of ICE vehicles do. But they don't.

If my Volvo ever runs out of gas all I need to do is to put some more gas in the tank and start it up.

If your vaunted Tesla runs down completely you're going to spend $40,000 to get it going again.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motor ... gn-problem

$1:

Tesla Motors' lineup of all-electric vehicles — its existing Roadster, almost certainly its impending Model S, and possibly its future Model X — apparently suffer from a severe limitation that can largely destroy the value of the vehicle. If the battery is ever totally discharged, the owner is left with what Tesla describes as a "brick": a completely immobile vehicle that cannot be started or even pushed down the street. The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery. Unlike practically every other modern car problem, neither Tesla's warranty nor typical car insurance policies provide any protection from this major financial loss.

I can buy a whole g*ddamn new Volvo for $40k! Why in hell would I want a Tesla with that kind of potential repair bill hanging over my head?

[peck420]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You don't know anyone who owns a 2nd-hand pickup truck, do you?

I know hundreds...it is Alberta after all .

And in every case they have spent thousands in repairs and maintenance, but since it happened incrementally, I guess that does not matter.

$1:

If electric vehicles were truly comparable to ICE vehicles then they'd be able to go 300,000 miles without any major repairs just like no end of ICE vehicles do. But they don't.

Electric motors will go thousands of miles past the 300k miles mark and work with little to no maintenance. But, that doesn't fit your argument, so we will ignore that little fact (true fact, electric motors are substantially more reliable and less maintenance intensive then ICE motors).

$1:

If my Volvo ever runs out of gas all I need to do is to put some more gas in the tank and start it up.

If your vaunted Tesla runs down completely you're going to spend $40,000 to get it going again.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motor ... gn-problem

$1:

Tesla Motors' lineup of all-electric vehicles — its existing Roadster, almost certainly its impending Model S, and possibly its future Model X — apparently suffer from a severe limitation that can largely destroy the value of the vehicle. If the battery is ever totally discharged, the owner is left with what Tesla describes as a "brick": a completely immobile vehicle that cannot be started or even pushed down the street. The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery. Unlike practically every other modern car problem, neither Tesla's warranty nor typical car insurance policies provide any protection from this major financial loss.

I can buy a whole g*ddamn new Volvo for $40k! Why in hell would I want a Tesla with that kind of potential repair bill hanging over my head?

So one idiot should brand a label?

I'm guessing that the person quoted has no idea how to condition (or in this case, recondition) a Li-Ion battery?

Put it on an appropriate trickle charger for a weekend. (Included with the Tesla btw)

As for comparing your Volvo, why not a complete comparison?

How many moving parts in your Volvo's engine? Hundred's. And each one vital to your cars performance, and each capable of breaking and leaving you stranded.

How many moving parts in a Tesla engine? Two. One big, beefy armature (about as good a chance of breaking as your vehicle's frame), and the stator...essentially an engine block, but stronger due to that nice round shape.

All in all, there are hundreds more things that can go wrong in an ICE vehicle, that can't even occur in an electric, but none of that seems to bother you.

You want to harp on the one thing that can go wrong, and it would fall under user negligence.

As for comparing the price of your Volvo to the Tesla S...would you compare a BMW M5 to your Volvo? Of course not, they are designed for different purposes and cost considerably different sums. The Tesla S has more in common with that, similarly priced, M5 then it does with your Volvo.

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

Electric motors will go thousands of miles past the 300k miles mark and work with little to no maintenance.

The batteries won't and that's the weak point of electrics and hybrids.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

peck420 peck420:

Electric motors will go thousands of miles past the 300k miles mark and work with little to no maintenance.

The batteries won't and that's the weak point of electrics and hybrids.

So that makes 3 things that might go wrong compared to the hundreds in a standard vehicle.

I've driven a Chevy Volt extensively over the last 2 years. Battery life is unchanged compared to the day it arrived.

[stratos]

$1:

I've driven a Chevy Volt extensively over the last 2 years. Battery life is unchanged compared to the day it arrived.

Do you run the battery down to near 0 offten? Is there a gage of some type showing how much battery life is left?

[OnTheIce]

stratos stratos:

$1:

I've driven a Chevy Volt extensively over the last 2 years. Battery life is unchanged compared to the day it arrived.

Do you run the battery down to near 0 offten? Is there a gage of some type showing how much battery life is left?

Yes, quite often actually. There is an ongoing battery meter on the dash.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

peck420 peck420:

Electric motors will go thousands of miles past the 300k miles mark and work with little to no maintenance.

The batteries won't and that's the weak point of electrics and hybrids.

So that makes 3 things that might go wrong compared to the hundreds in a standard vehicle.

I've driven a Chevy Volt extensively over the last 2 years. Battery life is unchanged compared to the day it arrived.

If it bursts into flames I'm curious what that does to the life expectancy?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011 ... essed.html

[Nuggie77]

I would wager the same thing that would happen to your volvo.

[jj2424]

stratos stratos:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

herbie herbie:

So build a practical electric vehicle and more will come.
One a 2 seater minivan or pickup that can be used for business purposes, a 4 seater that can get you to work or shopping and back.

Tesla Model 'S'

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

herbie herbie:

Doesn't need sporty or gimmicky or to go fast or go 500 miles on a charge. Fits a niche like the original Beetle, Mini, original Courier and Luv pickups, the Japanese Kei idea.

Current range is about 260 miles.

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/02/19/ne ... nt-use-go/

And it's price is
$62,400 $72,400

Which converts to 99 000 Canadian. Car manufacturers have great difficulty when they have to convert US to CDN.

[saturn_656]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

stratos stratos:

$1:

I've driven a Chevy Volt extensively over the last 2 years. Battery life is unchanged compared to the day it arrived.

Do you run the battery down to near 0 offten? Is there a gage of some type showing how much battery life is left?

Yes, quite often actually. There is an ongoing battery meter on the dash.

How much of a shit-kicking does the electric range take when temp drops? -20, -30, -40, etc.

[PluggyRug]

Lithium Ion class of energy cell (LiPo LiFe etc) are still not bullet proof. Ask Boeing.

Iv'e seen these batteries self destruct many times.One cell suddenly for no apparent reason shorts, heats up rapidly and causes thermal runaway in the other cells.

Had a brand new LiPo smoke last weekend, not connected, just sitting there on my bench. The heat melted the aluminium plate it was resting on.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

If it bursts into flames I'm curious what that does to the life expectancy?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011 ... essed.html

Gasoline based cars burst into flames quite often. Not so much for electric cars.

Swing and a miss, Bart.