[martin14]

desertdude desertdude:

I've been hearing about all these armed gangs of terorists on board the Mavi marmara. And how they attacked first and all that. I would really like to see real evidence other than the IDF night vision videos of that and some accoounts from other than the soilders themselves.

I would think if they were so boiling for a fight they would have soem real wepaons on board and killed a few IDF soilders don't ya think but it was they other way round as far as I can remember. I havent heard or seen any reports about the "arms stash" found on board. Saw some pictures of some sling shots and gas masks and thats about it.

The blocake is ileagal and so is hijacking and murder on the high seas

So you are willfully blind.


Repeating the blockade is illegal ad nauseum doesnt make it so.

As was previously mentioned, its been up for 3 years without any legal responses.


Are you going to court with it anytime soon ?

[desertdude]

Oh did I step on a raw nerve did I ? I'll admit I dont know the intricate details but from the surface they look pretty similar. Yes they were much worse and shouldn't have happened. But you can't say there arn't any similarities.

A people who themselves have suffered like that can then turn around and punish others in a similar fashion. You'd think they know better ?

[desertdude]

martin14 martin14:

As was previously mentioned, its been up for 3 years without any legal responses

Yes and thats part of the problem because most of the world has its lips pressed very tightly against Israels Arse.

It was sad that this unfortunate event had to take place for the world to realise this. And now has been condemed far and wide

[Scape]

[N_Fiddledog]

[N_Fiddledog]

This is a good article here for finding links on practically anything concerning this incident.

http://bigjournalism.com/oceren/2010/06 ... more-75698

I found this one there. It surprised me. Seriously click the link below even if you don't click the one above. It's hilarious, and the pics of where the Hamas elite hang out will drop your jaw.

http://www.mererhetoric.com/2010/05/26/ ... -flotilla/

Turns out if you're not paying off locals looking for slums to photograph, you can find some pretty nice places in Gaza. Lots of pics at the link. Hell I'd do the tourist thing there if I could be sure I wasn't going to be shot by Hamas for humming, or bombed in a sidewalk cafe (yes apparently they actually do have sidewalk cafes).

[commanderkai]

desertdude desertdude:

Ah there ya go again my friend. Nobodys arguging about letting weapons in

Of course not. Whoever would argue in favor of this would come out as a stupid douche. However. The whole point of a blockade, for Israel, is to hamper the movement of weapons into Gaza. Perfectly legitimate and rational, considering they have intercepted ships laden with weapons.

$1:

and which BTW if you would have read my earlier post outlines the weapons getting in anyways through tunnels which are profitable only because of Israels blockade also the non sensical restrictions on items like choclate, fresh meat, A4 size paper and building materials etc etc.

Of course some weapons are getting through. But because there are cracks in the cement does not mean you open the gates. That's just dumb. I'm sure you realize Israel blows up tunnels every once and a while.

Also, I didn't realize Hamas was operating from a "profit" standpoint. It's certainly not profitable to launch rockets at and generally piss off Israel, and yet they still do that, don't they? That's right, they do.

The reason why the tunnels are so "profitable" is because there is a massive risk to them. At any time an Israeli jet can drop a bomb to collapse the tunnel, causing detonations in all of that "chocolate", "fresh meat", and of course "A4 Size paper".

$1:

A recent report said that only 1/4th of aid is being let across than what is needed.

So only 1/4 of aid needed is being supplied to Gaza? That's too bad. I mean with all of these various money and oil rich Arab/Muslim states, you'd think they'd have some spare change to give to those poor Palestinians.

That's right, I hope you got a laugh out of that too. Pray tell, why doesn't Egypt, Syria, and some of these other Arab states that are outraged over these recent events not paying for more aid that would be let across, or better yet, why didn't Egypt let in more aid from its border?

$1:

How can you say the military advantage outweighs the harm on the Gazzan population with a straight face.

Of course I can. I can imagine not letting ships filled to the seams with weapons into Gaza outweighs the harm it does to Gaza from Israel's standpoint. Like I said, there are ways aid can get through. The problem is, Israel isn't going to supply all of the aid itself...and why should it? It did leave Gaza to its own devices after all.

$1:

Its even dumber than that. The land corridors are a joke and everybody knows that.

Oh really? I did not know this. I see the whole "lack of aid" thing as an issue with the lack of aid, not with the lack of delivery of aid. Or better yet, the delivery of aid to the wrong people, like Hamas members.

Wait, by "everybody", do you mean those who have their heads buried in the sand or in their ass? Then yes, I agree with you.

$1:

If it was a strictly no weapons blockade there would be no issue.

I'm sure Israel doesn't want concrete and metal to be sent to Gaza either. It's interesting, really. For a population that's starving and needing aid so badly, they are certainly able to produce weapons and rockets from any piece of metal they can find (thus why Israel doesn't allow canned goods and some of the products you mentioned). I can certainly compliment the Gazan recycling programs, but I can also understand why Israel wouldn't want my empty can of soup to wind up in Gaza either.

$1:

Infact Israel would be in much better control but it chooses not to and make life miserable for the gazzan population. Why ?

Well Israel, after it ended its total control, hoped that Fatah could stay in power and establish some sort of peace. Of course, this failed horribly, and a few conflicts ensued. If you prefer, Israel can invade again, establish checkpoints, settlements, and whatever else.

$1:

Yes it wasn't totally about aid it was to raise awareness fo the plight of the Gazzan population who are currently living in what is akin to the Jewish ghettos of Nazi Germany.

Outside of the fact that you just made yourself to look like something akin to a douchebag, only those living under a rock are "unaware" of the "plight" of Gaza. Of course, I do feel sorry for Gazans who are slaughtered by Hamas for being Christians, gays, fans of the Rolling Stones, friends of Jews, or basically anybody who doesn't want to kill Jews and/or non-Hamas members.

Of course, I also know the "plight" is partially propaganda, partially caused by Israel and Egypt, and mostly caused by Hamas.

[Bodah]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Interesting how the "peace activist" at the end is caught on tape beating then stabbing an IDF soldier.

No wonder some of them got shot dead.

And all they had to do was divert for inspection.

[GreenTiger]

This certainly puts a different spin on the situation. What was the purpose to deliver aid? or cause trouble?

[Bacardi4206]

I gotta give the Jewish people props, just looking at all the facts from this topic. All basicly showing Israel was justified in there actions, those activists were prvokative and were not activists. That Hamas is a terrorist organization that does far more harm to there own people than good and there only objective in life is either killing Jews or opressing there own people.

It just makes my realize how much shit Jews have had to take, the only proper balanced lifestyle they have had in regards to living in some form of peace was when they were in europe but that diddn't last very long... Than they formed there own nation where there people originally called home and have been defending for there very lives and existance ever since. Constantly being bombarded by hate, racism, terrorism and unifmormed, biased hatemongers spreading false facts and bias across the globe on all subjects related to Israel. The media constantly twisting shit to make Israel look like the bad guy and always showing one sided views that are always anti-Israel. They just cannot get a break.

[Bodah]

Agreed Bacardi,

I wasn't alive from 1939-1945 but the level of collective hatred directed at them seems disgustingly similiar. It seems like it's starting to spin out of control if WWIII is going to start anywhere it's going to be in the middle east and unfortunately I think it will have to do with Israel.

[N_Fiddledog]

It's true, a lot of weaponry gets through the tunnels.



However, blocking the port, prevents the big weaponry from getting through, like larger missiles. Also Israel does not want Iran to have an open port next to Israel. Hamas is not the only thing Israel has to worry about.

I imagine you heard Hamas is blocking the flotilla aid into Israel. This not the first time Hamas has blocked aid. Not by a long shot. One might even say it's a thing they do.

http://www.mererhetoric.com/2008/10/06/ ... cious-lie/

Nevertheless Gaza does get a lot of aid.

$1:

The EU is to increase its aid to the Palestinian Authority by €40 million, in order to pay the salaries of government employees. The first sympathy of any Eurocrat is, of course, always and everywhere with the public sector worker. If, in some bizarre parallel universe, the EU were to run out of money, you can bet its last euros would be spent on its own apparatchiks.

Still, the EU’s generosity with our money – it has paid the Palestinian Authority €256 million so far this year – creates two problems. First, the PA is run by Hamas, which is on the EU’s list of designated terrorist operations. Under Brussels rules, funding such an organisation is a criminal offence. Euro-lawyers have sought to circumvent the letter of the law by funnelling aid money through NGOs, but this is sheer sophistry. Many of the PA’s officials are Hamas militants, whose salaries are being paid while they serve their sentences in Israeli jails.

"Palestinians receive more assistance, per capita, than any other people on Earth,".

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danie ... _conflict/

So it's not just food and medicine. It's cash. Compute that into Palestinian access to what comes through the tunnels.

Stuff like this.

Livestock



Wide-screen TVs



Wanna see some more pics from Gaza you won't see in the mainstream media? Pics which may challenge your view of Gaza as a land of refugee camps.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... arian.html

http://rochester.indymedia.org/newswire ... /index.php

http://www.mererhetoric.com/2010/05/26/ ... -flotilla/

Did anybody else ever use to ask themselves questions like "if these Palestinians are so starving, and sick, why do they look so well fed, and dressed when they're screaming at the TV cameras?" If it's so bad how can they stay there?

[Bacardi4206]

desertdude desertdude:

Oh did I step on a raw nerve did I ? I'll admit I dont know the intricate details but from the surface they look pretty similar. Yes they were much worse and shouldn't have happened. But you can't say there arn't any similarities.

A people who themselves have suffered like that can then turn around and punish others in a similar fashion. You'd think they know better ?

Right because the Palestinians are all in one major death camp, they are so starving that there really skinny and there ribcages are practicly everything you can see. Jews were starved to death and at certon other camps, thrown into a fernus alive. Men, Women and Children alike. That's what happened to the Jews, they were so weak majority of them couldn't walk and just stayed in bed when they were rescued. You are comparing that to Gaza?

The Palestianians are all wed fed, none of them look skinny. They apparently have the money to buy AK-47's and RPG's but cannot buy food? Israel allows all aid to pass through, however all the blockaid is is a way to quartine what is going into Gaza. All aid is checked and anything on there ban list is removed. Palestinians get more aid than Africa and they are really starving. They got kids who generally lick cows ass literally just to help the cow produce more milk or something like that. I forgot what it said but on LL I saw the video and it's completely true.

Israel is doing nothing wrong, they tried to make peace with Palestinians on many occasions. The fact Hamas operates there is the only reason for this blockaid. No Hamas = No blockaid. The only problem here is Hamas, not Israel and all the border arab nations that support the conflict. Desertdude, you have said nothing but bullshit about Israel miss-treating and starving Gaza citizens. Please show us evidence of such a thing because much evidence has been given to you that all disbands any credability to your statements and debunk all your anti-Israel arguements.

[Wada]

To those who think Gaza is well off I ask you this,"Would you move there?" I know I wouldn't!

[Proculation]

Wada Wada:

To those who think Gaza is well off I ask you this,"Would you move there?" I know I wouldn't!

I don't think anybody said that Gaza was a paradise. They are in the hands of Hamas. They steal a lot of the aid coming from Egypt and Israel.

It remembers me the episode of Prison Break where they are in a prison in mexico (or panama?) and that in the prison, there were some guys ruling the entire prison. They taxed people and all.

If the Gazaouis want a better life, I hope they will restrain from elect Hamas again !