[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

If the shooting starts it won't go well for the leftists.

Hopefully the little turd you people have for a PM will have the sense to keep the fuck out of it or else he and the rest of your country will be drawn into it.

This makes me uneasy Bart. It's the 'us vs. them' that I've been talking about for so long. You, and I assume those who think and feel as you, seem to be spoiling for a fight. And guess what, I imagine 'the left' feel the same way as you.

Posturing isn't what's needed, deescalation is. Before the shooting starts.

And we aren't your enemy, any more than your countrymen are.

Doc, you have anchored yourself on the left. You're not as rabid as some others
around here. Or in RL.
Spoiling ?
No.

Hehe, yea, compared to you or Bart, I'm a leftie. But does the gun loving, race car owning, truck driving Albertan fit the 'leftie' stereotype? You confuse my social liberalism for being 'leftie', while ignoring my fiscal conservatism. BF, PD and Andy would all call me a 'rightie' because of it. I'm a proud Libertarian centrist.

And "spoiling", yes. Not the first time I've read Bart seemingly almost on the verge of violence over a political issue. Something best solved by discussion and compromise, but in the US it seems compromise is a four letter word.

Take his vision that something a politician (that few like) might say could result in war with us. Does that seem like a sound, sane line of reasoning? In racing, we call that 'the red veil', when you are so angry over something you can't think straight and do stupid things.

martin14 martin14:

But it is fair to say the right wing has been pushed really hard,
for decades now. And it been especially harsh these past few years.
The SJW3rdwavefeministgaymarriageBLM crowd have gone off the wheels
with the yelling and screaming and shaming and protesting, and the
politicians have falling over themselves to cancel a speech when one person
complains about it. Times when many were crowing about the bake shops getting
sued by obvious baiters, I said a few times the lefties are pushing too hard,
and they risk blowback.

So has the left been pushed. I find on youtube old debates between Presidential candidates, or old news clips and they are so far removed from today. Both parties used to work together to get things done. Now the attitude for both seems to be that party canon is everything, and nothing the other party stands for can ever be allowed to come to pass. The sheer hard hardheadedness of both sides has frayed nerves for their opposition. The moral standard of "no compromise" has required the increase of volume from both sides, hoping that loud English might get the point across. When loud and louder and loudest don't work, the inevitable violence arrived. Now the violence seems to escalate into completely open to shooting at each other.

What they both have forgotten is they both are striving for the same thing - the betterment of their country. They just have differing opinions on how to get there. And the MFWIC has done the exact opposite of what's needed to calm the tensions, instead he once again takes to the tweets and fans the flames implying that taking a stand against intolerance and hatred is somehow morally equal to that intolerance and hatred.

My Father and his brother would have a hairy fit, because they fought a war so that no one could call themselves both 'Patriot' and 'Nazi' at the same time. You can't be both.

martin14 martin14:

I think there is the feeling that it's time stop being pushed.
That's not spoiling.

And if shooting starts, I think the lefties are going to find out really fast
what happens when whitey decides to chimp out.
But I don't think they will.. yet.
Still not enough emotional investment as a movement.

Wait. . ."when the shooting starts' isn't 'spoiling for a fight'? That's pretty much the definition, assuming that words can lead to shooting and not seeing that discussion can break the tension. And you both assume that the ability to shoot is a right-wing thing. Are there no people on the left that enjoy sport shooting? Or would that violate the terms of the pigeon hole you've written for yourselves?

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

This makes me uneasy Bart. It's the 'us vs. them' that I've been talking about for so long. You, and I assume those who think and feel as you, seem to be spoiling for a fight. And guess what, I imagine 'the left' feel the same way as you.

Posturing isn't what's needed, deescalation is. Before the shooting starts.

And we aren't your enemy, any more than your countrymen are.

I'm sorry but the lines are being drawn and the lines are going to make people choose sides.

Elected Democrats keep calling for their followers to assassinate the President. That makes them my enemy.

When Obama was the most threatened President ever, I didn't see you losing any tears over it. That's a good example of the partisan divide that I see that I've been trying to articulate. Eight years of people mocking or even threatening the President took their toll on Republican and Democrat relations.

Now that the tables have turned, and a right-wing President is being treated the exact same way the left winger was, everyone on the Right suddenly doesn't like that.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And what you're seeing in the USA is being reflected in the UK, Poland, and etc. where people are starting to stand up to the leftist agenda and they don't give one single fuck what names the left calls them, they're not compromising or giving up even one more thing to the fucking left. The left has had it their way for too long and it's going to stop.

One way or the other it's going to stop.

And gunfire won't stop it. It will only make things worse. The only thing that stops it is talking and understanding and compromise. Shouting and yelling and badgering and mocking each other only drives the wedge in further.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

In case after case this last year the left has attacked people they don't like...sometimes they've even attacked moderates like yourself. They won't tolerate any deviation from their dogma and they've even attacked hard-core leftists who won't approve of the tactics they're using.

You mean like they did with "Obongo" the one with ears like open car doors? How did you put it over these last 8 years? And what about Benghazi and her emails? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone . . "

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The onus of responsibility to de-escalate is then on them. And they're bent on escalation and provocation...the same old tactics the left always uses.

And they won't stop until they kill this President and I truly believe that if they murder the President it will only embolden them to increasing levels of violence.

They have a serious hate on and they want blood.

One always has to be the one to start. The US needs to find it's Ghandi.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

And I fully expect that too many Canadians are going to get involved in whatever happens. I expect your PM to come out against the President and to side with the left if shooting starts.

What happens from there is anyone's guess.

That's nonsense. Why would you judge us, knowing us, because of one politician that not all of us agree with? And if you thought Iraq was a shitstorm, imagine trying to pacify a country of people who look like you and sound like you and know you and your culture as well as you do. We aren't little brown people who don't speak your language, and we fight dirtier than them.

Give your head a shake! Perhaps that blockage that is impeding your thought processes will fall out.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

One thing out of the war of rhetoric that's coming from your government against the Trump Administration is that you can expect to be in for a few surprises with NAFTA renegotiations.

I seriously doubt that Trump is going to sacrifice any votes in order to be nice to Canada.

We don't expect him to be nice to us. But your economic relationship with us lifts both of us up financially, and to screw with that balance will have serious repercussions to both our pocketbooks. If Trump were as good a businessman as he claims to be, he'll change NAFTA in such a way that it ends up being better for us all.

And we know this. Which is why we aren't worried. We know his tactics, he blusters on, and tried to present himself in as being in a position where he is not. The negotiators will hammer out a deal that benefits us all, and Trump can go and spin it as a 'win' for the US, and no one will check so no one will care.

Then we'll take softwood to the WTO, and the NAFTA tribunal, and we'll win - again. And everything will return to normal.

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Thats a pretty ridiculous post considering your side includes ACTUAL Nazis who actually say "Im a Nazi" and fly the ACTUAL Nazi swastika. Really indicative of the level of cognitive dysfunction going on when the side with actual proud Nazis tries to criticize anti-Nazis by drawing vague comparisons to Nazis.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And "spoiling", yes. Not the first time I've read Bart seemingly almost on the verge of violence over a political issue. Something best solved by discussion and compromise, but in the US it seems compromise is a four letter word.

meh, sometimes it is just blowing off steam.
shitposting is healthy sometimes.

$1:

In racing, we call that 'the red veil', when you are so angry over something you can't think straight and do stupid things.

Sure.
But I'm pretty sure it isn't the right trying to dig up NathanForrest's grave.

A grave of a solider of the Boer War in the UK was vandalized yesterday;
maybe just some shithead, but probably not the local BNP boys.

Red mist goes both ways.

$1:

So has the left been pushed. I find on youtube old debates between Presidential candidates, or old news clips and they are so far removed from today. Both parties used to work together to get things done. Now the attitude for both seems to be that party canon is everything, and nothing the other party stands for can ever be allowed to come to pass.

Look this isn't the first time you and I have discussed this and it won't be the last.
Yes, everything is much more polarized, and not just Presidential debates.
Everything, and I mean everything, is now influenced through a political/financial eye.
I only pass notice I have not read you having the 'let's be reasonable'
conversation with BF, or Thanos, or PD, or xerxes, or anyone else round here.

Takes two to tango.

I had a huge fight with Coach about the same thing,
we had it out and then made up.. a bit.. I think..

$1:

My Father and his brother would have a hairy fit, because they fought a war so that no one could call themselves both 'Patriot' and 'Nazi' at the same time. You can't be both.

My parents were in Occupied Netherlands at the time, so you can imagine
how much being called a Nazi gets under my skin.

Let's see the call for PD to calm the fuck down and approach things
with a little more humility.......

martin14 martin14:

And if shooting starts, I think the lefties are going to find out really fast
.

$1:

Wait. . ."when the shooting starts' isn't 'spoiling for a fight'? That's pretty much the definition, assuming that words can lead to shooting and not seeing that discussion can break the tension. And you both assume that the ability to shoot is a right-wing thing. Are there no people on the left that enjoy sport shooting? Or would that violate the terms of the pigeon hole you've written for yourselves?

Wait.... I said IF, not WHEN, big difference.
And I would say that firearms popularity is more on the right that the left.
That does not mean the Commies show up without guns.

I would say overall the right wing, and especially the very far right, still don't have
the emotional involvement to go full SA.... yet.

Hopefully, the economy will get better in the US, and that should help calm things down.
Working people get tired by working.. and that's a good thing.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

One always has to be the one to start. The US needs to find it's Ghandi.

Good luck.
But you can forget finding anyone from politics, business,
academics, television, other entertainment, or any other public institution.
They all have declared ground.

Not Ghandi, but maybe a Military Man.
But that won't be a very good solution either.

$1:

We don't expect him to be nice to us. But your economic relationship with us lifts both of us up financially, and to screw with that balance will have serious repercussions to both our pocketbooks. If Trump were as good a businessman as he claims to be, he'll change NAFTA in such a way that it ends up being better for us all.

And we know this. Which is why we aren't worried. We know his tactics, he blusters on, and tried to present himself in as being in a position where he is not. The negotiators will hammer out a deal that benefits us all, and Trump can go and spin it as a 'win' for the US, and no one will check so no one will care.

Then we'll take softwood to the WTO, and the NAFTA tribunal, and we'll win - again. And everything will return to normal.

Realistically, the only way to save NAFTA is to remove Mexico from it.
Since that won't happen, then it becomes important to limit the damage as much as
possible, and also to make that it looks like Trump gets a win. He needs the spinm, and we should give to him, in exchange for not changing that much.

But I have no faith in Freeland or Potato.. zero.
When they start talking about the solutions being raising environment standards
or minimum wage in Mexico as the solution, instead of doing something
for Canada .. we are fucked.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

meh, sometimes it is just blowing off steam.
shitposting is healthy sometimes.

I understand. But sometimes too, people take it too seriously. That's why I try not to do it, it might lead to problems later.

martin14 martin14:

Sure.
But I'm pretty sure it isn't the right trying to dig up NathanForrest's grave.

A grave of a solider of the Boer War in the UK was vandalized yesterday;
maybe just some shithead, but probably not the local BNP boys.

Red mist goes both ways.

Yup. I've said before, leave these things alone. No point in tearing down statues now, the past is the past. Ignoring it is worse, then we won't learn from our mistakes.

martin14 martin14:

Look this isn't the first time you and I have discussed this and it won't be the last.
Yes, everything is much more polarized, and not just Presidential debates.
Everything, and I mean everything, is now influenced through a political/financial eye.
I only pass notice I have not read you having the 'let's be reasonable'
conversation with BF, or Thanos, or PD, or xerxes, or anyone else round here.

Takes two to tango.

I had a huge fight with Coach about the same thing,
we had it out and then made up.. a bit.. I think..

No, but I don't always tango with you to try to convince you of anything. I know that sometimes you just aren't going to be convinced. Sometimes, I do it because I want to explore my own views, and to see if I still believe a certain thing to be true. And perhaps, I just might accidentally put a viral thought into your brain at the same time.

I don't argue with everyone; sometimes because I agree with them, sometimes because I don't care to waste my time, some times because I just don't give a shit, or just don't have the time. Because I don't call everyone out on their BS doesn't imply any sort of opinion from me. But in their favour for those you identify, they don't usually see gunfire as a solution to an argument. Although, there are arguments I've had that I've considered that was the only appropriate way to end them.

I will, and have, engaged all of those posters if I feel it will lead to an interesting conversation. It just seems we've been more on the same side of the argument lately.

martin14 martin14:

My parents were in Occupied Netherlands at the time, so you can imagine
how much being called a Nazi gets under my skin.

Let's see the call for PD to calm the fuck down and approach things
with a little more humility.......

I quite agree. I don't like name calling, and I'd only call someone 'Nazi' if they first say "Hi, I'm a Nazi".

martin14 martin14:

Wait.... I said IF, not WHEN, big difference.
And I would say that firearms popularity is more on the right that the left.
That does not mean the Commies show up without guns.

I would say overall the right wing, and especially the very far right, still don't have
the emotional involvement to go full SA.... yet.

Hopefully, the economy will get better in the US, and that should help calm things down.
Working people get tired by working.. and that's a good thing.

True, you did write "if".

I sure hope someone comes to their senses before the gunfire erupts. Sure don't want to see people I like and care for in the US have to go through another civil war.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

Not Ghandi, but maybe a Military Man.
But that won't be a very good solution either.

Don't discount a good strategist!

martin14 martin14:

But I have no faith in Freeland or Potato.. zero.
When they start talking about the solutions being raising environment standards
or minimum wage in Mexico as the solution, instead of doing something
for Canada .. we are fucked.

I like Freeland, smart lady. Trudeau, not so much. As for minimum wage . . .

http://www.nber.org/papers/w23667

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I don't argue with everyone; sometimes because I agree with them, sometimes because I don't care to waste my time, some times because I just don't give a shit, or just don't have the time. Because I don't call everyone out on their BS doesn't imply any sort of opinion from me. But in their favour for those you identify, they don't usually see gunfire as a solution to an argument. Although, there are arguments I've had that I've considered that was the only appropriate way to end them.

I will, and have, engaged all of those posters if I feel it will lead to an interesting conversation. It just seems we've been more on the same side of the argument lately.

I quite agree. I don't like name calling, and I'd only call someone 'Nazi' if they first say "Hi, I'm a Nazi".

So, I ask you, how am I, or Bart, or FD supposed to have a reasonable conversation
with this:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

jesus Christ. Do you have to be a total fucking asshole about every single thing you read?? People must find it really difficult yo spend time around you.

Hey dipshit this may surprise you but law enforcement is first and foremost the government's job. Secondly demanding that law enforcement do a betterjob in no way suggest "community will do nothing to help".

Lastly provincial offences such as violating helmet or traffic laws are not "crimes" and only a complete idiot like yourself would try to conflate the two.

Is this:

u agree
waste of time
dont give a shit

??

$1:

Because I don't call everyone out on their BS doesn't imply any sort of opinion from me.

Yeah, it does; you may not mean to do it, but it does.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Thats a pretty ridiculous post considering your side includes ACTUAL Nazis who actually say "Im a Nazi" and fly the ACTUAL Nazi swastika. Really indicative of the level of cognitive dysfunction going on when the side with actual proud Nazis tries to criticize anti-Nazis by drawing vague comparisons to Nazis.

You get too excited about memes, guy. Or at least the ones that don't support your narrative. I didn't see you complaining when the same picture above was used as a bullshit meme deifying antifa on page 6 of this thread.

Antifa in action only differs from the fascists they claim to "anti" by a minor tweak. The antifa/nazi similarity is the point of the memes. That point supports the position there were two groups of radicals at that rally. Speaking of cognitive dissonance, I mean. That's pretty basic. You're supposed to get that.

[Public_Domain]

[herbie]

$1:

My parents were in Occupied Netherlands at the time, so you can imagine

"SJW3rdwavefeministgaymarriageBLM crowd", anti-immigrant, "Obongo", supporter of torchlight marches chanting anti-Jew slogans, turban wearing criminals...

$1:

how proud they are of me.

Finished that for you...

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

jesus Christ. Do you have to be a total fucking asshole about every single thing you read?? People must find it really difficult yo spend time around you.

Hey dipshit this may surprise you but law enforcement is first and foremost the government's job. Secondly demanding that law enforcement do a betterjob in no way suggest "community will do nothing to help".

Lastly provincial offences such as violating helmet or traffic laws are not "crimes" and only a complete idiot like yourself would try to conflate the two.

Is this:

u agree
waste of time
dont give a shit

??

Dont give a shit.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

So, I ask you, how am I, or Bart, or FD supposed to have a reasonable conversation
with this:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

jesus Christ. Do you have to be a total fucking asshole about every single thing you read?? People must find it really difficult yo spend time around you.

Hey dipshit this may surprise you but law enforcement is first and foremost the government's job. Secondly demanding that law enforcement do a betterjob in no way suggest "community will do nothing to help".

Lastly provincial offences such as violating helmet or traffic laws are not "crimes" and only a complete idiot like yourself would try to conflate the two.

Is this:

u agree
waste of time
dont give a shit

??

A little of all 3. It's a waste of time to point out the name calling and personal attack gets no one to listen to his argument. It hasn't worked yet. I agree that policing is provincial responsibility, and it's partly true that non-inditable offenses are not 'crimes', but they are still 'illegal'.

But I don't give enough of a shit, nor did I have the spare time then, to bother to tell him that. So I moved on to battles worth fighting.

You don't have a conversation with him. You put him on your 'ignore' list and move on.

martin14 martin14:

$1:

Because I don't call everyone out on their BS doesn't imply any sort of opinion from me.

Yeah, it does; you may not mean to do it, but it does.

No, it only matters to those who make assumptions and feel they need to classify people based on those assumptions. No comment implies nothing about a person's opinion, other than the assumptions a reader already made about their views. Sometimes, people just don't care. Assuming that they do, and then assuming which opinion they hold is incorrect, absent proof.

[martin14]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

I'm just tired martin, of people who think some superiority nonsense and in their scripture discuss myself, my family, my loved ones and friends, as inferior, as servile nothingness, as less than unwashed rats. And frankly, maybe you ain't a Nazi, but buddy you talk like one sometimes. Maybe you're just a capitalist, in decay.

Least all you guys get called are a few critical words (sexist, racist, etc) that really just come down to meaning "judgmental prick".

Good, working is good for you.
p,s, you should think about negotiating that raise soon/now, before
he has a chance to recover/hire new staff.

Be a good capitalist, hit your boss when he is down.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

A little of all 3. It's a waste of time to point out the name calling and personal attack gets no one to listen to his argument. It hasn't worked yet. I agree that policing is provincial responsibility, and it's partly true that non-inditable offenses are not 'crimes', but they are still 'illegal'.

But I don't give enough of a shit, nor did I have the spare time then, to bother to tell him that. So I moved on to battles worth fighting.

You don't have a conversation with him. You put him on your 'ignore' list and move on.

Oh hell no, I have way too much fun triggering him.

$1:

No, it only matters to those who make assumptions and feel they need to classify people based on those assumptions. No comment implies nothing about a person's opinion, other than the assumptions a reader already made about their views. Sometimes, people just don't care. Assuming that they do, and then assuming which opinion they hold is incorrect, absent proof.

OK.
I wouldn't expect Bart to change his opinion anytime soon.