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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:36 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
xerxes xerxes:
I always try and defend the UN, but this time I won't even try. I mean, did not one person think that North Korea chairing this was a ridiculous decision? I understand the principle of engagement with shithole countries run by shitheads, but there's engagement for diplomacy's sake and then there's comical stupidity.


No, the UN deserves defending, even when it makes decisions such as this.

What all the naysayers here forget is that the General Assembly works based on DEMOCRACY. It's an awful idea I know, but the majority gets their way, not the minority. The naysayers here also forget that the when the UN 'worked' (in their opinion) the West had a majority in it and the UN followed its will, and no doubt the USSR and Warsaw Pact felt as ill-represented as the West does now.

Thankfully, most Western nations do NOT ascribe to such an antiquated, silly form of government...oh wait a minute! :wink:

I think this is a terribly bad decision, but that's what happens in democracies. Look at how many bad decisions the US government has made in the past 20 years.

The POV of which were truly bad decisions really comes down to your political opinion, nothing more.

As many Conservative supporters here said after the recent election - suck it up, you lost. :P


F*cking BRILLIANT. R=UP


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:08 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
The UN deserves defunding, especially when it makes decisions such as this.


Thought I'd fix that for you. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:14 am
 


I all most fell over when I saw this :

$1:
Canada plans to boycott the United Nations conference on disarmament to protest North Korea's selection as conference chair, CTV News has learned.


8O Unreal. What's next, the Taliban as chair of the Human Rights commision? Good on Canada for calling bullshit on this one PDT_Armataz_01_37


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:31 am
 


I wonder which numb skull in the UN makes these appointments? or is it a Select Committee of Knuckleheads?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:55 am
 


Well, the nuance is kind of left out here. As far as I can tell, North Korea was not voted chair of the committee by the General Assembly, but simply assumed the chair as part of a rotation. There's some 65 countries in the Committee and it goes in alphabetical order. And the Committee in question has apparently been around for years, but has never done anything.

Here's what high ranking Canadian diplomat Marius Grinius said of the North Korean Appointment:

$1:
Mr. President, first let me congratulate you on assuming the tasks of the presidency at this critical juncture in the Conference on Disarmament's history.


So my question to Baird is--why are your staff saying one thing and you're saying another? Sounds like Baird just went off. And he's made Canada look like an idiot in the process, since we deliver two completely different messages. Foreign policy is not a file you should be doing on the fly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:17 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
xerxes xerxes:
I always try and defend the UN, but this time I won't even try. I mean, did not one person think that North Korea chairing this was a ridiculous decision? I understand the principle of engagement with shithole countries run by shitheads, but there's engagement for diplomacy's sake and then there's comical stupidity.


No, the UN deserves defending, even when it makes decisions such as this.

What all the naysayers here forget is that the General Assembly works based on DEMOCRACY. It's an awful idea I know, but the majority gets their way, not the minority. The naysayers here also forget that the when the UN 'worked' (in their opinion) the West had a majority in it and the UN followed its will, and no doubt the USSR and Warsaw Pact felt as ill-represented as the West does now.

Thankfully, most Western nations do NOT ascribe to such an antiquated, silly form of government...oh wait a minute! :wink:

I think this is a terribly bad decision, but that's what happens in democracies. Look at how many bad decisions the US government has made in the past 20 years.

The POV of which were truly bad decisions really comes down to your political opinion, nothing more.

As many Conservative supporters here said after the recent election - suck it up, you lost. :P


And, like any democracy, if we don't agree with the overall outcome, we are allowed to voice our disagreement. There is always the option available of leaving the UN entirely.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Well, the nuance is kind of left out here. As far as I can tell, North Korea was not voted chair of the committee by the General Assembly, but simply assumed the chair as part of a rotation. There's some 65 countries in the Committee and it goes in alphabetical order. And the Committee in question has apparently been around for years, but has never done anything.

Here's what high ranking Canadian diplomat Marius Grinius said of the North Korean Appointment:

$1:
Mr. President, first let me congratulate you on assuming the tasks of the presidency at this critical juncture in the Conference on Disarmament's history.


So my question to Baird is--why are your staff saying one thing and you're saying another? Sounds like Baird just went off. And he's made Canada look like an idiot in the process, since we deliver two completely different messages. Foreign policy is not a file you should be doing on the fly.


You can congratulate someone on an appointment, yet entirely disagree with the appointment.

Another issue may be that to outright voice disdain of an appointment on the floor, only to have the foreign affairs minister backpedal may be an even worse diplomatic blunder.

At the end of the day, at the moment of the appointment, Grinius wasn't on the phone with Baird asking him wtf to do, he's on his own. He made what he felt was the best diplomatic decision; taking the neutral ground.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:42 am
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
And, like any democracy, if we don't agree with the overall outcome, we are allowed to voice our disagreement. There is always the option available of leaving the UN entirely.


Yes there is. And the Conservatives disdain for the UN is certainly palpable--which made it all the more hypocritical when they were outraged they didn't get a seat on the Security Council. Go ahead, Baird--throw a big hissy and walk out of the UN. That'll learn 'em!

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
You can congratulate someone on an appointment, yet entirely disagree with the appointment.

Another issue may be that to outright voice disdain of an appointment on the floor, only to have the foreign affairs minister backpedal may be an even worse diplomatic blunder.

At the end of the day, at the moment of the appointment, Grinius wasn't on the phone with Baird asking him wtf to do, he's on his own. He made what he felt was the best diplomatic decision; taking the neutral ground.


Well it makes Canada look like a joke diplomatically. The Conservatives are going to do the same thing the Bush II did--making themselves look like idiots on the foreign policy front.

Canada sent a delegation to the UN Rotterdam Convention to block the addition of asbestos as a hazardous substance. Because there's a mine in Quebec, and the Tories need those Quebec votes. Asbestos kills about 100 ,00 a year according the WHO. Of course, according to the Conservatives its harmless--they're not going to be swayed by a bunch of eggheads and their stupid studies. Meanwhile they're dropping the better part of a billion dollars to remove asbestos from the Parliament buildings. There's a joke in there somewhere, but I'll leave it to JJ to find it!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:54 am
 


Well what the fuck do you expect them to do, give NK a great big pat on the back and support their appointment to the position???

And that would be a good joke. Just remember, no one, no organization, nothing is perfect.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:09 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
bootlegga bootlegga:
The UN deserves defunding, especially when it makes decisions such as this.


Thought I'd fix that for you. :mrgreen:


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
And, like any democracy, if we don't agree with the overall outcome, we are allowed to voice our disagreement. There is always the option available of leaving the UN entirely.


Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:11 pm
 


Well, Bart has a point. If the other kids want to play their way, maybe they need to buy their own ball?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:27 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


Well whats the other option? Just sit there?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:58 pm
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


Well whats the other option? Just sit there?


The other option is operate strategically to your own country's optimal advantage. That would be my preferred approach.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:05 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


What? With all of the anti-US sentiment in the UN I'm surprised they don't refuse our dirty money and I'm surprised they'd tolerate staying in an oppressive place like New York City.

If you people want this freak show in Toronto you just say so and we'll pack them up and send them to you. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:13 pm
 


Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


Well whats the other option? Just sit there?


Nope, we should work to make things better, just like in any other democracy.

Abandoning the UN won't fix anything, except marginalize our voice in the world.

Whether we work to add members to the Security Council (where the power really rests in the UN) or influence nations in the General Assembly, we should be trying to do something, not whining like little kids when things don't go our way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:14 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Yep, that's real mature - we don't like the game, so we're taking our ball and going home! :lol:


What? With all of the anti-US sentiment in the UN I'm surprised they don't refuse our dirty money and I'm surprised they'd tolerate staying in an oppressive place like New York City.

If you people want this freak show in Toronto you just say so and we'll pack them up and send them to you. :wink:


With all of the anti-UN sentiment in the US, I'm surprised you haven't asked them to leave already...


Last edited by bootlegga on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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