[EyeBrock]

Wow, who would have thought that the Afghan judicial system was flawed?

On UN 'standards', give me a break.

[Curtman]

The Geneva Convention? Any problem with that?

[Guy_Fawkes]

It's a third world country, what do you think the jails in Somalia, North Korea, Sudan ect are like. Your quote;

$1:

“Cumulatively, the documents leave one with the impression of (a) flawed Afghan judicial system that fall (sic) well below UN standards,” reads the memo, written by an adviser with the Afghanistan Task Force. “In addition, the assembled material may seem to suggest that Government of Canada messaging on the detainee issues for the last 12 months has been out of sync with reporting from the field.”

sounds like it came from the bureaucrat who was shut out.

I still dont see any conspiracy here. Everyone knows the conditions in the jails were not great, but no one knew for certain that prisoners who were handed over were being tortured. No one observed it, nor had any credible evidence it was happening. What the Star didnt point out is, even though all of these torture allegations were not substantiated by evidence the CF still changed its procedure on prisoner exchange. That is not because they were covering something up, its just how the CF does things. They did not know if torture in these prisons did happen, but it looked like it could happen, so they have made changes.

The opposition was fishing for something, and havent nor will they find what they are looking for, and it wont stop them from throwing out theories and conjecture to muddy the waters though. However it still does not change the fact that, in no way will this show Canadian soldiers willfully and will full knowledge hand over detainees to be tortured. Timmy Taliban might have gone without water for a day, or had been left shackled too long. These are issues plaguing a developing nation which does not have the ability to properly train its guards or have a running water in homes let alone a jail.

[Curtman]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

It's a third world country, what do you think the jails in Somalia, North Korea, Sudan ect are like. Your quote;

$1:

“Cumulatively, the documents leave one with the impression of (a) flawed Afghan judicial system that fall (sic) well below UN standards,” reads the memo, written by an adviser with the Afghanistan Task Force. “In addition, the assembled material may seem to suggest that Government of Canada messaging on the detainee issues for the last 12 months has been out of sync with reporting from the field.”

sounds like it came from the bureaucrat who was shut out.

I still dont see any conspiracy here. Everyone knows the conditions in the jails were not great, but no one knew for certain that prisoners who were handed over were being tortured. No one observed it, nor had any credible evidence it was happening. What the Star didnt point out is, even though all of these torture allegations were not substantiated by evidence the CF still changed its procedure on prisoner exchange. That is not because they were covering something up, its just how the CF does things. They did not know if torture in these prisons did happen, but it looked like it could happen, so they have made changes.

The opposition was fishing for something, and havent nor will they find what they are looking for. It wont stop them from throwing out theories and conjecture to muddy the waters though. Im positive the Cons would be doing the same thing if the tables were turned. However it still does not change the fact that, in no way will this show Canadian soldiers willfully and will full knowledge hand over detainees to be tortured. Timmy Taliban might have gone without water for a day, or had been left shackled too long. These are issues plaguing a developing nation which does not have the ability to properly train its guards or have a running water in homes let alone a jail.

Thats not good enough to say nobody had any proof. When the allegations surfaced the government was obliged to investigate. They didn't, they have stonewalled every attempt to investigate so far. It's not a CF problem, it's a political one.

[martin14]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

the CF still changed its procedure on prisoner exchange. That is not because they were covering something up, its just how the CF does things.

Guy, don't worry, Curtman isn't interested in any facts about things.

He just has a hard on for the Cons.


ANYTHING.



Thing is, he's going to spend a lot of time wailing... next 4 years.

[Guy_Fawkes]

Curtman Curtman:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

It's a third world country, what do you think the jails in Somalia, North Korea, Sudan ect are like. Your quote;

$1:

“Cumulatively, the documents leave one with the impression of (a) flawed Afghan judicial system that fall (sic) well below UN standards,” reads the memo, written by an adviser with the Afghanistan Task Force. “In addition, the assembled material may seem to suggest that Government of Canada messaging on the detainee issues for the last 12 months has been out of sync with reporting from the field.”

sounds like it came from the bureaucrat who was shut out.

I still dont see any conspiracy here. Everyone knows the conditions in the jails were not great, but no one knew for certain that prisoners who were handed over were being tortured. No one observed it, nor had any credible evidence it was happening. What the Star didnt point out is, even though all of these torture allegations were not substantiated by evidence the CF still changed its procedure on prisoner exchange. That is not because they were covering something up, its just how the CF does things. They did not know if torture in these prisons did happen, but it looked like it could happen, so they have made changes.

The opposition was fishing for something, and havent nor will they find what they are looking for. It wont stop them from throwing out theories and conjecture to muddy the waters though. Im positive the Cons would be doing the same thing if the tables were turned. However it still does not change the fact that, in no way will this show Canadian soldiers willfully and will full knowledge hand over detainees to be tortured. Timmy Taliban might have gone without water for a day, or had been left shackled too long. These are issues plaguing a developing nation which does not have the ability to properly train its guards or have a running water in homes let alone a jail.

Thats not good enough to say nobody had any proof. When the allegations surfaced the government was obliged to investigate. They didn't, they have stonewalled every attempt to investigate so far. It's not a CF problem, it's a political one.

Isnt the CF the Government?

So when the CF investigated and found nothing, you're saying another government body should have stepped taken over and conducted another investigation?

The government is not obliged to do anything, they felt the CF was competent enough to investigate the matter.

I can tell nothing I say will sway you from your goal to uncover Harper's sinster plot of how he covered up soldiers outsourcing torture to the ANP. So go on and believe what you want; no one can show teach Sarah Palin evolution is a fact, and I cant convince you that Canadian soldiers did not hand detainees over to be torture.

[Curtman]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So when the CF investigated and found nothing, you're saying another government body should have stepped taken over and conducted another investigation?

The government is not obliged to do anything, they felt the CF was competent enough to investigate the matter.

I can tell nothing I say will sway you from your goal to uncover Harper's sinster plot of how he covered up soldiers outsourcing torture to the ANP. So go on and believe what you want; no one can show teach Sarah Palin evolution is a fact, and I cant convince you that Canadian soldiers did not hand detainees over to be torture.

How could you convince me of that? How would you know for sure? I don't. Why cover it up and stand in the way of investigation if there's nothing to hide?

[Guy_Fawkes]

Curtman Curtman:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So when the CF investigated and found nothing, you're saying another government body should have stepped taken over and conducted another investigation?

The government is not obliged to do anything, they felt the CF was competent enough to investigate the matter.

I can tell nothing I say will sway you from your goal to uncover Harper's sinster plot of how he covered up soldiers outsourcing torture to the ANP. So go on and believe what you want; no one can show teach Sarah Palin evolution is a fact, and I cant convince you that Canadian soldiers did not hand detainees over to be torture.

How could you convince me of that? How would you know for sure? I don't. Why cover it up and stand in the way of investigation if there's nothing to hide?

I give up, you're right Curtman. When I was on tour in '07 a memo came down from Parliament saying to hand over prisoners so they may be tortured behind closed doors. In exchange we got oodles of intelligence on the Taliban and thats why we were so successful in our offensives that year. You uncovered the truth, here is your cookie.

[EyeBrock]

Curtman Curtman:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So when the CF investigated and found nothing, you're saying another government body should have stepped taken over and conducted another investigation?

The government is not obliged to do anything, they felt the CF was competent enough to investigate the matter.

I can tell nothing I say will sway you from your goal to uncover Harper's sinster plot of how he covered up soldiers outsourcing torture to the ANP. So go on and believe what you want; no one can show teach Sarah Palin evolution is a fact, and I cant convince you that Canadian soldiers did not hand detainees over to be torture.

How could you convince me of that? How would you know for sure? I don't. Why cover it up and stand in the way of investigation if there's nothing to hide?

It depends on who's doing the 'investigation'.

[PluggyRug]

Curtman Curtman:

Well that's your opinion. I care about people who are suffering, and I care about Canada's reputation for being peaceful and just. Harper is the antithesis of those things. There are reasons I dislike Harper more than I have any other Conservative leader. These Conservatives are something new and much more dangerous than the previous ones.

Care to open a bottle of whine with that?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

Curtman Curtman:

Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:

So when the CF investigated and found nothing, you're saying another government body should have stepped taken over and conducted another investigation?

The government is not obliged to do anything, they felt the CF was competent enough to investigate the matter.

I can tell nothing I say will sway you from your goal to uncover Harper's sinster plot of how he covered up soldiers outsourcing torture to the ANP. So go on and believe what you want; no one can show teach Sarah Palin evolution is a fact, and I cant convince you that Canadian soldiers did not hand detainees over to be torture.

How could you convince me of that? How would you know for sure? I don't. Why cover it up and stand in the way of investigation if there's nothing to hide?

I give up, you're right Curtman. When I was on tour in '07 a memo came down from Parliament saying to hand over prisoners so they may be tortured behind closed doors. In exchange we got oodles of intelligence on the Taliban and thats why we were so successful in our offensives that year. You uncovered the truth, here is your cookie.

Now now GF, tell him the whole truth. You know, how any Canadian soldier that captured a taliban that was handed over for torture got a new car when they came home.