[DerbyX]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I agree with much of what you say about the Senate Derby, but having an elected Senate has to be the way to go.

Either it's elected or we get rid of it.

It should have been changed during the 19th century reforms. Having appointed politicians just 'ain't responsible government.

Even if the elected senators are just as shit as the appointed ones, the elected types will have to respond to the voters or they will get voted out.

All of which will require constitutional amendments where the provinces decisions hold sway. Harper trying to ram senate reform down our throats will do far more harm then good especially when you consider all the scenarios I listed that few seem to have mentioned.

If he really wants to establish senate reform he'd draw up proposals (as would the opposition parties) and put them to a referendum just like Ontario had over STV.

Only a national vote should be the deciding factor and not some pompous jerk who has so far reneged on every single promise he seems to have made.

[Bodah]

WOO-HOO 5 more Conservatives to the senate !!!!

Don't worry were going to leave it in better shape than how we found it.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DerbyX DerbyX:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I agree with much of what you say about the Senate Derby, but having an elected Senate has to be the way to go.

Either it's elected or we get rid of it.

It should have been changed during the 19th century reforms. Having appointed politicians just 'ain't responsible government.

Even if the elected senators are just as shit as the appointed ones, the elected types will have to respond to the voters or they will get voted out.

All of which will require constitutional amendments where the provinces decisions hold sway. Harper trying to ram senate reform down our throats will do far more harm then good especially when you consider all the scenarios I listed that few seem to have mentioned.

If he really wants to establish senate reform he'd draw up proposals (as would the opposition parties) and put them to a referendum just like Ontario had over STV.

Only a national vote should be the deciding factor and not some pompous jerk who has so far reneged on every single promise he seems to have made.

Wow, the EXACT same sentiment pops up when I think about the Cretin. In fact, BOTH parties are seriously guilty of Senate manipulation. Why the hell should some jerk off that sucked the PM's ass 15 years previous to him becoming PM get to vote on national policy?

[DerbyX]

Bodah Bodah:

WOO-HOO 5 more Conservatives to the senate !!!!

Don't worry were going to leave it in better shape than how we found it.

And just like 1993 the Liberals will be tasked with repairing the damage the conservatives have inflicted on us.

[Bodah]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Bodah Bodah:

WOO-HOO 5 more Conservatives to the senate !!!!

Don't worry were going to leave it in better shape than how we found it.

And just like 1993 the Liberals will be tasked with repairing the damage the conservatives have inflicted on us.

How did Mulroney fuck up the senate ?

[DerbyX]

How did the Liberals? All they did was appoint senators in exactly the same procedure as Mulroney did so therefore they cannot by definition have fouled it up. In fact Chretien was even fair enough to appoint an NDPer. No such fairness from Harper.

[PimpBrewski123]

Either way you look at it, there should be some sort of reform to the Senate.

After all, these ''fine'' citizens are getting paid approx $130K to goof around and scratch their ass all day.

[DerbyX]

PimpBrewski123 PimpBrewski123:

Either way you look at it, there should be some sort of reform to the Senate.

After all, these ''fine'' citizens are getting paid approx $130K to goof around and scratch their ass all day.

Except the question isn't so much that the senate needs reform but how and in what way. How many will support amending the constitution to reform the senate? Alot of people in Ontario talked about how the FPTP system needed reform but in the end the voters rejected it.

How many will support senate reform once a complete plan is put forth including all the ramifications.

A majority of Canadians support climate change action ..... until they start seeing what it will personally cost them.

[Thanos]

Meh. I care about senate reform these days about as much as Liberals cared about getting rid of the GST or tearing up the FTA back in 1993 which, according to their Red Book of promises, said they were obligated to do. Which they didn't. And the sky didn't fall either when they backed off, because it just turned out to be another reminder that politicians and parties attach themselves to promises that turn out to be too complicated or bothersome to keep. No malice really (except for that truly bizarre moment when Chretien said in front of the cameras that he never said that he would get rid of the GST even though all the news footage exists out there of him saying that exact same thing) just no time to waste playing Don Quixote on silly crusades that end up going nowhere. Senate reform, just like almost all the old Reform Party staples, is just another item to quietly forget and move forward from.

It takes an adult to admit that we're all guilty of the same hypocrisies. No big bloody deal at all to say it. I'll vote for Harper because I like Harper. I won't vote for Liberals or NDP because I don't like Liberals or NDP. I've got too much left to do with the remainder of my own life to allow it to get much more complicated than that.

[uwish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

westmanguy westmanguy:

Oh please take your santamonious views somewhere else.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. The only way to reform the Senate is to end the Liberal majority, so Conservatives have the numbers to pass things like term limits and senate election.

Save your ill-informed beliefs for someone else. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that you re-surfaced to defend your beloved Harper.

Having a majority in the Senate does NOT allow for it to be reformed, it just allows smoother passage of your party's bills, period. Harper isn't reforming shit.

To actually reform it requires that the Constitution be amended.

True, but the CPC were elected on certain principles, like tougher on crime, etc etc and when the un-elected upper chamber get in the way of this, what choice does he have? He didn't fill it up with the 18 vacant seats the minute he took office did he? He is pissed off that he is not able to do what he was elected to do. So, fight fire with fire, now the CPC have a majority in the senate. DONE.

[uwish]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Bodah Bodah:

WOO-HOO 5 more Conservatives to the senate !!!!

Don't worry were going to leave it in better shape than how we found it.

And just like 1993 the Liberals will be tasked with repairing the damage the conservatives have inflicted on us.

lets not talk about damage and infliction. 75 out of 100 years have been liberal federal governments. If you want to talk about damage, I know who to blame.

[PimpBrewski123]

Look, by no means an expert on Senate reform.

But it all seems ironic that no one seemed to notice when the Liberals dominated the senate, and that was ok. But the fact that now the Conservatives are filling some seats, the media reports it as no longer appropriate. The same could be said on the prorogation matter. In all fairness that should be looked at from both sides of the issue. There seems to be a bit of bias, that's all.

[uwish]

DerbyX DerbyX:

How did the Liberals? All they did was appoint senators in exactly the same procedure as Mulroney did so therefore they cannot by definition have fouled it up. In fact Chretien was even fair enough to appoint an NDPer. No such fairness from Harper.

Victims rights activist Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu for Quebec.
Former provincial auditor general Elizabeth Marshall for Newfoundland and Labrador.

OOO the horror!!! your saying an NDPer is better than a victims rights activist?

[Bodah]

DerbyX DerbyX:

How did the Liberals? All they did was appoint senators in exactly the same procedure as Mulroney did so therefore they cannot by definition have fouled it up. In fact Chretien was even fair enough to appoint an NDPer. No such fairness from Harper.

Ok I wont blame any party for it being the way it is, fucked up. I dont want senators appointed anymore, period.

Shit here's an admission for you I don't even like it when Harper appoints senators. I want the system changed to stop that, and there's a bill that's been sitting there for way too long to change all of this.

So he's sending in his peeps to get'r done.

You can't spin that any other way, but then maybe you'll likely suprise me as usual

[DerbyX]

uwish uwish:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Bodah Bodah:

WOO-HOO 5 more Conservatives to the senate !!!!

Don't worry were going to leave it in better shape than how we found it.

And just like 1993 the Liberals will be tasked with repairing the damage the conservatives have inflicted on us.

lets not talk about damage and infliction. 75 out of 100 years have been liberal federal governments. If you want to talk about damage, I know who to blame.

Funny I kinda love Canada and think we have done a fine job as a country. Sorry you don't feel that way. Exactly who was in charge during all those years the military so gallantly forged a global rep?