[DrCaleb]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

Clinton tried to do something. Anyone recall Black Hawk Down?

Was it anything like "Operation Deliverance" ?

[Bodah]

romanP romanP:

Look, you can swat pirates all you like. I'm not advocating letting them get away with murder just because there's a lot of people in dire straits who are left with little choice but to steal. But the answer to the problem of piracy off the coast of Somalia is not killing all of the pirates, because there will just be more pirates, as it has just been demonstrated.

Try to disagree with me on this all you like, go ahead and belittle the idea of doing something about the lack of enforced laws in Somalia until you're blue in the face, but look at what just happened. They killed some pirates and more appeared to take their place. What makes you think this won't continue all the way down the line to this imaginary "pirate base"?

We tried going to Somolia to try and fix their shit hole of a country, remember. How'd that work out for us ? How many times do we bang our heads against the wall.

In the meantime its easier on all fronts to just kill the pirates. I'm tired of people looking at the western world as the saviours of the globe then always get criticized with their means on how they try to save it.

You probably have a free Tibet sticker on your car huh ? I bet if we sent in an armed force to free them, you'd change your bumper sticker to "war is not the answer"

[Pseudonym]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

Clinton tried to do something. Anyone recall Black Hawk Down?

Was it anything like "Operation Deliverance" ?

Perhaps. It was pretty rough. I am specifically referring to the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu. I don't know much about Operation Deliverance other than a quick skim of a couple links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)

[Lemmy]

Black Hawk Down...good film, GREAT BOOK. If you've never read the book, you must. It's not a flag-waving, Yankee-pride story like the film plays. The book tells the story from the Somali side as well. I highly recommend it.

As for pirates, I like pirates. I read Treasure Island 5 times when I was a kid. That movie "Captain Blood", with Errol Flynn, was a fantastic flick. I think I'll go listen to some Jimmy Buffett records now.

[Lemmy]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

I say, kill them all. Hunt down all the pirates like the British use to do and just hang them all. That is the ones that surrender. The others just put a bullet in the head and be done with the scum.

That's funny to me that a guy named "Bacardi" has a problem with pirates. The frickin' Captain Morgan label even has a goddamn pirate on it.

[ridenrain]

Looks like the Easter SEAL program will be running a little longer this year.

[romanP]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

OK that's what I'd do. What would you do? You'd ignore the problem at sea, and fix the problem on land, right?

*clears throat, gives you a weary look* No.

$1:

You'd solve the problem in Somalia, is that correct? You'd fix their government. Very well. Specifically how? How long do you figure it would take you?

They don't have a government. That's the problem. That's why there are pirates. You can kill pirates till you're blue in the face, but there will still be more pirates until the rule of law is restored. That does not mean that the seas should not be policed, it means that there is a candle burning at both ends and the problem will not be solved until you snuff out both flames. Until the issue of lack of government is resolved, we're going to have to keep dealing with pirates.

There probably isn't any "mothership" or "end boss" that you can blow up with a SuperNuke 9000 and call it a day, because this isn't a video game. These are people who are desperate and will do whatever it takes to survive, even if that means acquiring an AK47 and holding a ship hostage.

[Proculation]

And how do you fix the government issue ?

The pseudo government installing now are Islamists sponsored by terrorists.

As I know you, you won't want to overthrow that government and send NATO or the UN there.

[romanP]

Bodah Bodah:

romanP romanP:

Look, you can swat pirates all you like. I'm not advocating letting them get away with murder just because there's a lot of people in dire straits who are left with little choice but to steal. But the answer to the problem of piracy off the coast of Somalia is not killing all of the pirates, because there will just be more pirates, as it has just been demonstrated.

Try to disagree with me on this all you like, go ahead and belittle the idea of doing something about the lack of enforced laws in Somalia until you're blue in the face, but look at what just happened. They killed some pirates and more appeared to take their place. What makes you think this won't continue all the way down the line to this imaginary "pirate base"?

We tried going to Somolia to try and fix their shit hole of a country, remember. How'd that work out for us ? How many times do we bang our heads against the wall.

Until we realise that banging our head against a wall isn't going to accomplish very much and try something different.

$1:

In the meantime its easier on all fronts to just kill the pirates.

Lots of things are easy to do. It's easier to walk into a bank and steal some money than it is to get a job and work for it. But robbing banks doesn't get one very far in life, does it? As long as we're willing to put up with the things that are easy to do instead of taking up the challenge, we're just as bad as they are. It's the things that are hard to do that have got us where we are today.

I seem to remember some guy giving a speech about that before some other guys climbed into a rocket and flew to the moon. Guess it wasn't really important...

$1:

I'm tired of people looking at the western world as the saviours of the globe then always get criticized with their means on how they try to save it.

The means is always important. If you don't consider the means, how can you solve the problem? You cannot solve a problem by repeating the actions that caused it in the first place.

$1:

You probably have a free Tibet sticker on your car huh ? I bet if we sent in an armed force to free them, you'd change your bumper sticker to "war is not the answer"

Actually, I'd have both side by side, but I have neither, nor a car. Different problems require different solutions. The solution to Tibet's problems is not going to war with China, because that would be a suicide mission.

[romanP]

Proculation Proculation:

And how do you fix the government issue ?

The pseudo government installing now are Islamists sponsored by terrorists.

As I know you, you won't want to overthrow that government and send NATO or the UN there.

The same way we need to solve the problems in Afghanistan. You talk with whatever government forms, and convince them of better ways to do business. You arrest or kill the pirates until government decides it's too problematic not to. You walk softly and carry a big stick.

[Lemmy]

romanP romanP:

You arrest or kill the pirates until government decides it's too problematic not to. You walk softly and carry a big stick.

[Public_Domain]

[DrCaleb]

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Pseudonym Pseudonym:

Clinton tried to do something. Anyone recall Black Hawk Down?

Was it anything like "Operation Deliverance" ?

Perhaps. It was pretty rough. I am specifically referring to the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu. I don't know much about Operation Deliverance other than a quick skim of a couple links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)

Yea, I know. Pretty rough for our guys too. But, successful nonetheless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deliverance

We don't get such a long Wikipedia page though.

[snuggles61]

romanP romanP:

The "home base" is a little country called Somalia. If you want to kill all of the pirates, you might as well kill all of the inhabitants of Somalia. This is a symptom of a much larger problem, which is Somalia being in a very bad state of anarchy. If America and the rest of the countries that have been busy blowing up Iraq for the past six years had spent even half as much effort on restoring order to Somalia, this probably wouldn't be happening.

Does Somalia have any valuable natural resources like oil? See where I'm going with this?

[RUEZ]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

I say, kill them all. Hunt down all the pirates like the British use to do and just hang them all. That is the ones that surrender. The others just put a bullet in the head and be done with the scum.

That's funny to me that a guy named "Bacardi" has a problem with pirates. The frickin' Captain Morgan label even has a goddamn pirate on it.

It's not a game.