[Sunnyways]

Let’s wait and see what this really means. Even Zimbabwe has admitted it went too far and Malema has already said nobody will lose their house. Large commercial farms and vineyards employ a lot of black people.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m not saying I support the government but even with these cases, the South African government today is still treating whites far better than the all-white apartheid government ever treated blacks during its reign of oppression and terror that lasted until not even 30 years ago.

Sure, this is how the black population of South Africa went from 5 million in the 50's,
to 40 million now. Apartheid, mass extinctions, genocide, all the cute
PC progressive Hate Whitey words.

Omg you’re not really claiming that there was no persecution because the population grew are you? The US Black population grew under slavery, Soviet population grew under Communist dictators, Chinas population exploded under Mao, does that mean those people were treated well?

$1:

We can easily say that everything you post in the next 5 years about South Africa
will be either an outright lie, or borne of pure ignorance.

The only one who routinely spreads lies and ignorance and never can provide proof of their bullshit claims here is you. You just spout shit off and then get all triggered whenever someone points out the obvious fallacy or asks for a supporting link. Still waiting for you to prove your BS claim about the BLM supporters who supposedly shot at rescuers during hurricane Harvey. Hows that going?

[Thanos]

More of an ethnic cleansing than a genocide. Regardless of what happens South Africa is destined to turn into just another African nightmare state when white influence & presence is altogether purged from the economy and governmental institutions. They've already tumbled downwards badly enough since the late 1990's and if the ANC and the even more radical black political parties are talking insanity like Stalinesque land redistribution then all they're doing is guaranteeing that in due time they'll end up as badly off as Zimbabwe did.

I'd say the time is long overdue to offer immediate immigrant status to any white South Africans who want to get the hell out of there, as well as to any educated blacks in the professions too who also end up in just as much danger from the thugs, but that something our current government won't ever do. Much like Zimbabwe they'll be left there to get robbed and murdered because they "deserve it" or whatever the hell justification the SJW types in Ottawa have in their goddamn heads. No forgiveness for our late Conservative government for not offering them sanctuary either.

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Are you kidding me?? You must not know much about South Africa, including what the word Apartheid means. It pretty much means the exact opposite of “Blacks can get jobs”. It also means the opposite of “blacks have legal rights”.

$1:

White South Africans complain affirmative action policy is causing them to face discrimination

White South Africans say it has become harder for them to get a job because of a policy aimed at helping to rectify past apartheid wrongs, called black economic empowerment.

The policy has imposed quotas on government positions to ensure black South Africans are appropriately represented in the public sector.

But there has been an unintended by-product, with more and more white South Africans saying they have been finding it difficult to get a job and are living in poverty.

But South Africa's Institute for Race Relations said while white poverty levels have increased, they still pale in comparison to black poverty levels.

But South Africa's Institute for Race Relations said while white poverty levels have increased, they still pale in comparison to black poverty levels.

Andree Coetzee, a qualified cabinetmaker, lives in what many consider to be a slum, a community called Munsieville, with around 300 other white people.

Mr Coetzee said he and many others living there believe a reverse apartheid was playing out in South Africa, and he said he had been on the receiving end of discriminatory racial policies.

He said he experienced it when he applied for a job.

"I gave them my papers to prove I'm qualified, they said, 'Sorry Mister, you're white and you're too old'.

"How can you survive in a country like this when he says straight to you, 'you're white'? What have they got against the whites? And it's white people [saying that].

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-01/w ... id/7676764

Anecdotes are not substitute for statistics.
Affirmative Action, however unfortunate, is not equivalent to, much less worse than, the government-organized murder, torture, political imprisonment, oppression , segregation etc. of the white apartheid regime.

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m not saying I support the government but even with these cases, the South African government today is still treating whites far better than the all-white apartheid government ever treated blacks during its reign of oppression and terror that lasted until not even 30 years ago.

So this is the better treatment you're speaking about.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m not saying I support the government but even with these cases, the South African government today is still treating whites far better than the all-white apartheid government ever treated blacks during its reign of oppression and terror that lasted until not even 30 years ago.

So this is the better treatment you're speaking about.

Fake

$1:

The article itself points out that only 42,000 out of 4.5 million white South Africans, roughly 0.9 per cent, are believed to live in poverty.

That compares to some 27 million black people deemed as living in poverty in the country, or 63 per cent of the 43 million population.

...,“Black squatter camps are a far cry from that which is pictured here, with tens of family members sharing a room in the kind of squalor that will make you sick,” he said.

“So-called ‘white poverty’ is not news in this country, but an insult to the poverty that blacks face on a daily basis even more than 20 years into democracy.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47116.html

[BeaverFever]

Thanos Thanos:

More of an ethnic cleansing than a genocide. Regardless of what happens South Africa is destined to turn into just another African nightmare state when white influence & presence is altogether purged from the economy and governmental institutions. They've already tumbled downwards badly enough since the late 1990's and if the ANC and the even more radical black political parties are talking insanity like Stalinesque land redistribution then all they're doing is guaranteeing that in due time they'll end up as badly off as Zimbabwe did.

I'd say the time is long overdue to offer immediate immigrant status to any white South Africans who want to get the hell out of there, as well as to any educated blacks in the professions too who also end up in just as much danger from the thugs, but that something our current government won't ever do. Much like Zimbabwe they'll be left there to get robbed and murdered because they "deserve it" or whatever the hell justification the SJW types in Ottawa have in their goddamn heads. No forgiveness for our late Conservative government for not offering them sanctuary either.

A new kind of ethnic cleansing where the people being supposedly cleansed have all the land, all the private sector jobs, own all the businesses and control all the money and continue to enjoy almost all of the privileges of a ruling elite, except hiring preference when applying for government jobs.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The US Black population grew under slavery, Soviet population grew under Communist dictators, Chinas population exploded under Mao, does that mean those people were treated well?

Compared to what they had before ? Yes.

Your problem is you like to compare what populations have as far as rights, education,
infrastructure, medicine, etc., to what we have. And this is where you fail.
People dont get that overnight, handed to them on a silver platter.
The population of the blacks went up because they had access to jobs, education, and healthcare.
Was it the best in the world quality ? No. But a lot better than what was before.
Because before, there was nothing.

$1:

We can easily say that everything you post in the next 5 years about South Africa
will be either an outright lie, or borne of pure ignorance.

Thanos Thanos:

More of an ethnic cleansing than a genocide. Regardless of what happens South Africa is destined to turn into just another African nightmare state when white influence & presence is altogether purged from the economy and governmental institutions. They've already tumbled downwards badly enough since the late 1990's and if the ANC and the even more radical black political parties are talking insanity like Stalinesque land redistribution then all they're doing is guaranteeing that in due time they'll end up as badly off as Zimbabwe did.

I'd say the time is long overdue to offer immediate immigrant status to any white South Africans who want to get the hell out of there, as well as to any educated blacks in the professions too who also end up in just as much danger from the thugs, but that something our current government won't ever do. Much like Zimbabwe they'll be left there to get robbed and murdered because they "deserve it" or whatever the hell justification the SJW types in Ottawa have in their goddamn heads. No forgiveness for our late Conservative government for not offering them sanctuary either.

half million have already left, more will go.
The problem a lot are now facing, there is nowhere to go.
Smart ones already left
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News ... 20170806-2

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You really need to look up what the word genocide means, much less trying to pretend affirmative action and expropriation are equivalent or worse than Stalin-style organized torture, murder, and oppression

But what we did to the FNs, that was a genocide, right ?

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I am now going to justify the seizure of White property in South Africa without compensation as a good thing.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

A new kind of ethnic cleansing where the people being supposedly cleansed have all the land, all the private sector jobs, own all the businesses and control all the money and continue to enjoy almost all of the privileges of a ruling elite, except hiring preference when applying for government jobs.

Jews in Germany.
The perception. Correct or not doesn't matter, that was the perception.

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

Let’s wait and see what this really means. Even Zimbabwe has admitted it went too far and Malema has already said nobody will lose their house. Large commercial farms and vineyards employ a lot of black people.

Oh, so you're hoping this will be 'Zimbabwe with a human face', right ?
As far as 'no one will lose their house', what do you think expropriation without compensation
actually means ?

You're going to be in for a surprise.

[BRAH]

martin14 martin14:

BRAH BRAH:

Coming soon to Canada thanks to PMJT's meddling in the aftermath of the Gerald Stanley verdict.

Don't give him any ideas please.

To late it's already here.

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I’m not saying I support the government but even with these cases, the South African government today is still treating whites far better than the all-white apartheid government ever treated blacks during its reign of oppression and terror that lasted until not even 30 years ago.

So this is the better treatment you're speaking about.

Fake

$1:

The article itself points out that only 42,000 out of 4.5 million white South Africans, roughly 0.9 per cent, are believed to live in poverty.

That compares to some 27 million black people deemed as living in poverty in the country, or 63 per cent of the 43 million population.

...,“Black squatter camps are a far cry from that which is pictured here, with tens of family members sharing a room in the kind of squalor that will make you sick,” he said.

“So-called ‘white poverty’ is not news in this country, but an insult to the poverty that blacks face on a daily basis even more than 20 years into democracy.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47116.html

So, the only thing we disagree on is the number.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... theid.html

What I can't figure out is why we have to apologize and make restitution for the "sins of our fathers" but when the new leaderships starts acting in the same manner as the old it's okay because, our ancestors treated them badly decades or centuries ago?

If anyone should know it's not right to mistreat people especially in today's world it would be the progeny of those who were abused. Unless of course it's all about retribution in which case it would make sense. But, of course that would mean that there's been no progress and the new masters are no better and even in some cases much worse than the old ones.

[Thanos]

Vengeance and revenge based in tribalism are what they are. Reason or rationality have nothing at all to do with it.

[martin14]

Thanos Thanos:

Vengeance and revenge based in tribalism are what they are. Reason or rationality have nothing at all to do with it.

And dodging responsibility for the utter failure of the government in South Africa since 1994.
Absolutely everything has gone completely down the toilet since.

Mugabe did exactly the same thing.
But but but Mandela was hero ! Everything is fine !
Communist traitors never win.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The US Black population grew under slavery, Soviet population grew under Communist dictators, Chinas population exploded under Mao, does that mean those people were treated well?

Compared to what they had before ? Yes.

Your problem is you like to compare what populations have as far as rights, education,
infrastructure, medicine, etc., to what we have. And this is where you fail.
People dont get that overnight, handed to them on a silver platter.
The population of the blacks went up because they had access to jobs, education, and healthcare.
Was it the best in the world quality ? No. But a lot better than what was before.
Because before, there was nothing.

Oh “slavery was a good thing because before that they didn’t have jobs.” How ridiculous. No further response required on that one.


The only one who routinely spreads lies and ignorance and never can provide proof of their bullshit claims here is you. You just spout shit off and then get all triggered whenever someone points out the obvious fallacy or asks for a supporting link. Still waiting for you to prove your BS claim about the BLM supporters who supposedly shot at rescuers during hurricane Harvey. Hows that going?

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You really need to look up what the word genocide means, much less trying to pretend affirmative action and expropriation are equivalent or worse than Stalin-style organized torture, murder, and oppression

But what we did to the FNs, that was a genocide, right ?

Right. Ok once again time to dispell some of your lies and ignorance. Did you already forget that we used to do things like pay bounty for Indian scalps? Also not coincidentally the South African architects of apartheid studied our treatment of FN and the Jim Crow South when developing their own system of oppression.

One major difference though is South African colonization follows the pattern of most tropical and subtropical European colonies, where the climate and tropical diseases prevent or discourage mass settlement of Europeans. In temperate regions like North America, European settlers along with their their livestock and crops flourished while their germs and communicable diseases quickly decimated the indigenous populatio and whites quickly became the majority. In tropical colonies, the opposite was true. European crops,livestock and farming methods were not well adapted to the climate and along with various waterborne and mosquito-borne diseases limited the success and attractiveness of European settlement. So in these tropical places, the Europeans remained a permanent minority. These colonies had to continuously rely on more brutal and oppressive means to maintain control. Many parts of conqured Africa were never settled by Europeans at all, and were simply garrisoned by European troops and private armies who pressed the locals into slave labor. South Africa was perhaps among the most successful of these tropical colonies as the climate is actually quite moderate compared to other tropical locations yet the white population there was never more than 11% at its peak. How is a country that is 11% wealthy and 89% slave any different from any other African “shithole” country? You would not be singing it’s praises if the privileged 11% were non-whites would you?

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I am now going to justify the seizure of White property in South Africa without compensation as a good thing.

Stop being such a dishonest asshole. In my first post I said I don’t agree with it. Why is it you feel you have to resort to such dishonest tactics?

$1:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

A new kind of ethnic cleansing where the people being supposedly cleansed have all the land, all the private sector jobs, own all the businesses and control all the money and continue to enjoy almost all of the privileges of a ruling elite, except hiring preference when applying for government jobs.

Jews in Germany.
The perception. Correct or not doesn't matter, that was the perception.

First this is not comparable to the holocaust so just stop whatever the fuck you’re going to say right there.
And second whether it’s correct or not does matter. I know Deplorables and ignorance non-reading people like you don’t care about facts or what’s really true anymore but facts DO matter and the Alternative Facts Gemans spread about Jews are not equivalent to the REAL facts of the brutal apartheid regime, which in the 1980s and 1900s even can easily compare to any Soviet-bloc country even in the treatment of its own white population. The 1980s and 90s for fucks sake.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So, the only thing we disagree on is the number. [/quote

You seriously can’t tell the difference between your fake number of 25% and the real number of 0.9%????

$1:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3462336/The-white-squatter-camps-South-Africa-home-hundreds-families-enduring-terrible-poverty-blame-fall-Apartheid.html

The widespread criticism of this article was at the link in my earlier post.

$1:

What I can't figure out is why we have to apologize and make restitution for the "sins of our fathers" but when the new leaderships starts acting in the same manner as the old it's okay because, our ancestors treated them badly decades or centuries ago?

Apartheid ended in 1991 which was not “centuries ago.”

$1:

If anyone should know it's not right to mistreat people especially in today's world it would be the progeny of those who were abused. Unless of course it's all about retribution in which case it would make sense. But, of course that would mean that there's been no progress and the new masters are no better and even in some cases much worse than the old ones.

You’re not wrong, which is why I said I don’t agree with the proposed expropriation without compensation. It’s too much stick and not enough carrot.

But for ghe record when an opreasor is overthrown, by definition there has to be some redistribution of wealth and power; you shouldn’t have to perpetuate the wealth power of the former oppressors simply because taking away would be mean. That only just means the oppressors are still in control.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

That only just means the {new} oppressors are still in control.

FTFY