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Posts: 53465
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:02 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce: DrCaleb DrCaleb: OnTheIce OnTheIce: The money spent isn't a waste. It wins elections!
People don't want the truth, facts or debate. They want tabloid politics. Scandal, outrage, anger and lots of gossip.
It's embarrassing that people are too stupid to see that all these parties are buying our votes with OUR money. And that's why Democracy is broken. It's not broken. We take it for granted. This is almost the longest election cycle Canada has ever seen, and much of it is funded by the taxpayer, because the politicians wrote the rules that way. For every dollar spent on campaigning, $.75 is returned to the Parties in the form of tax rebates. It's in the parties interest to run longer campaigns, because issues that are brought up in the beginning of the race are forgotten. If the old traditions were still in force, we'd have voted by now! Instead, it's about halfway through the campaign and the spending of our money is just getting started. As you say, people don't want to hear about real issues. Politicians don't want to make promises they'll have to live up to later. Most people don't even bother to vote because they think it'll change nothing. Politicians no longer run because they feel a need to serve the country, they do it for the fat retirement benefits. Democracy is broken.
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OnTheIce 
CKA Uber
Posts: 10666
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:08 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb: This is almost the longest election cycle Canada has ever seen, and much of it is funded by the taxpayer, because the politicians wrote the rules that way. For every dollar spent on campaigning, $.75 is returned to the Parties in the form of tax rebates. It's in the parties interest to run longer campaigns, because issues that are brought up in the beginning of the race are forgotten. If the old traditions were still in force, we'd have voted by now! Instead, it's about halfway through the campaign and the spending of our money is just getting started.
That's just a matter of personal preference. You don't like the long campaign, I could care less but some are for it and some are against. Elections cost us money regardless of length. It's the cost of doing business. DrCaleb DrCaleb: As you say, people don't want to hear about real issues. Politicians don't want to make promises they'll have to live up to later. Most people don't even bother to vote because they think it'll change nothing. Politicians no longer run because they feel a need to serve the country, they do it for the fat retirement benefits.
Democracy is broken. I know a couple MP's that were very wealthy before getting into politics so the fat retirement isn't a draw. Some of these guys and gals actually like this type of work. In the end, we get what we put into it. If we don't invest the time to research the leaders, parties and candidates, we get a half-assed government.
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andyt
CKA Uber
Posts: 33492
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:12 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb: Politicians no longer run because they feel a need to serve the country, they do it for the fat retirement benefits.
Democracy is broken. The only one of the leaders that would qualify for this slur is Harper. Mulcair is a lawyer, they can certainly make more money in private than as prime minister. Trudeau, we are told over and over, is a spoiled rich kid, so he's certainly not in it for the money. I doubt if the pension is what is motivating any of these three guys. Democracy is "wounded" because it is a victim of its own success. Like unions. One of the reasons to get rid of Harper, who's been undermining democracy far more radically than any other leader. If we ever come to live in interesting times is when we'll really need democracy again - let's hope the heart of rock and roll democracy is still beating by then.
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Posts: 53465
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:23 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce: DrCaleb DrCaleb: This is almost the longest election cycle Canada has ever seen, and much of it is funded by the taxpayer, because the politicians wrote the rules that way. For every dollar spent on campaigning, $.75 is returned to the Parties in the form of tax rebates. It's in the parties interest to run longer campaigns, because issues that are brought up in the beginning of the race are forgotten. If the old traditions were still in force, we'd have voted by now! Instead, it's about halfway through the campaign and the spending of our money is just getting started.
That's just a matter of personal preference. You don't like the long campaign, I could care less but some are for it and some are against. Elections cost us money regardless of length. It's the cost of doing business. Longer elections cost us more money, because of the rules recently instituted with the 'fixed' election date legislation. The longer the cycle, the more they are allowed to spend per day versus earlier in the election. I do prefer shorter election cycles, because they cost me less. OnTheIce OnTheIce: DrCaleb DrCaleb: As you say, people don't want to hear about real issues. Politicians don't want to make promises they'll have to live up to later. Most people don't even bother to vote because they think it'll change nothing. Politicians no longer run because they feel a need to serve the country, they do it for the fat retirement benefits.
Democracy is broken. I know a couple MP's that were very wealthy before getting into politics so the fat retirement isn't a draw. Some of these guys and gals actually like this type of work. In the end, we get what we put into it. If we don't invest the time to research the leaders, parties and candidates, we get a half-assed government. I've know a few people also that were there to serve, and didn't need the money. But I've know far more that were just there for the paycheque. You and I might research where to put our votes, but most of the population can't be bothered because they feel it's not worth their time.
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Posts: 15244
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:14 am
It's not about the paycheque you get while in office. It's about all the lucrative and cushy "influence-peddler" appointments you get after you leave office: Look at John Baird as but the most recent example: $1: Since leaving politics, Baird has accepted several private sector appointments. In June 2015 he was hired as a strategic adviser to Hatch Ltd, an international engineering and consulting firm for companies in the resource industry. He has also been hired as an adviser to Barrick Gold and Bennett Jones, and accepted an appointment to the board of directors of Canadian Pacific Railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bair ... lic_office
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Posts: 15244
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:33 am
It's not a coincidence that the Conservatives launch the longest, most expensive campaign season since the 19th century in the same year that they've phased out the old campaign finance laws in favour of one that benefits their party.
The Conservatives, as the party of the 1% now take in far more donations than the other opponents so can better afford long, expensive campaigns.
Right-wing orthodoxy now has it that money = democracy so they had no philosophical problem with ending the more equitable per-vote subsidy system; the latter favoured financing based on the amount of public support instead of based on the amount of private wealth of your supporters, and didn't really work out for the smaller but richer right-wing vote.
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OnTheIce 
CKA Uber
Posts: 10666
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:41 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever: It's not a coincidence that the Conservatives launch the longest, most expensive campaign season since the 19th century in the same year that they've phased out the old campaign finance laws in favour of one that benefits their party.
The Conservatives, as the party of the 1% now take in far more donations than the other opponents so can better afford long, expensive campaigns.
Right-wing orthodoxy now has it that money = democracy so they had no philosophical problem with ending the more equitable per-vote subsidy system; the latter favoured financing based on the amount of public support instead of based on the amount of private wealth of your supporters, and didn't really work out for the smaller but richer right-wing vote. Get off your horse. The Conservatives aren't any more elitist than the Liberals or the NDP. Just typical dribble from a typical Liberal that have this inflated view of their party as being the moral compass of the Country and one for the people. It's bullshit.
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Posts: 15244
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:54 am
They're definitely more elitist than the NDP. I'll grant you the Liberals have been historically but you can hear the giant sucking sound as the 1% have reallocated their resources to Harper. $1: have this inflated view of their party as being the moral compass of the Country
Always the line used by those arguing from a morally weak position. The equivalent of calling someone a "tattle-tale", a "do-gooder" or a "goody two-shoes"
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OnTheIce 
CKA Uber
Posts: 10666
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:27 pm
BeaverFever BeaverFever: They're definitely more elitist than the NDP. I'll grant you the Liberals have been historically but you can hear the giant sucking sound as the 1% have reallocated their resources to Harper. $1: have this inflated view of their party as being the moral compass of the Country
Always the line used by those arguing from a morally weak position. The equivalent of calling someone a "tattle-tale", a "do-gooder" or a "goody two-shoes" Morally weak? The only thing 'weak' here is the point you're trying to make. $1: Pierre Jeanniot: The former CEO of Air Canada and former chair of Scotiabank has donated more than $10,000 to political parties, including $7,654 to Liberals and $4,000 to Conservatives. He now runs JINMAG Inc., a transportation industry consulting, management and investment firm. $1: The de Pencier family: Environmental investor Michael de Pencier and family members have donated more than $17,000, with almost half of it going to the Green Party. Mr. de Pencier is chair of magazine publisher Key Publishers Company and past chair of the World Wildlife Federation of Canada. Along with his wife Honor, and brother John de Pencier, a retired insurance executive and his wife Marni, the family has donated $8,700 to the Liberals, $8,000 to the Green Party, and $400 to the Conservatives. $1: The Beaudoin family: $25,207. Laurent Beaudoin, former CEO and current board chairman of Bombardier and relatives have donated more than $25,000 to political parties. Along with his wife Claire and son Pierre, who is the current Bombardier CEO, and other family members, Mr. Beaudoin has donated $14,600 to the Liberals and $10,500 to the Conservatives. $1: The Rawlinsons: Gordon Rawlinson, president and CEO of Saskatchewan and Alberta broadcaster Rawlco Radio and his wife and Jill donated more than $37,000 to political parties between 2007 and 2010. That included $21,000 to the Liberals and $13,700 to the Conservatives. Both are prominent arts and education philanthropists in Alberta and Saskatchewan. $1: The staff of Ernst & Yonge have donated more than $76,000 to the Liberals, mostly in 2008. All employees listed the postal code of the company’s Toronto offices as part of their donations. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... -in-canadaHistorically, the Liberals have been the party of the 1%. Before Chretien and Harper changed the rules, they were getting huge cash from the big banks.
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Posts: 21665
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:52 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce: Get off your horse.
The Conservatives aren't any more elitist than the Liberals or the NDP. Just typical dribble from a typical Liberal that have this inflated view of their party as being the moral compass of the Country and one for the people.
It's bullshit. Who pissed in your coffee? Oh yeah, Jerry Bance.
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Posts: 15244
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:35 pm
OnTheIce OnTheIce: And yet, despite the National Post's carefully written piece crafted to make the Conservatives look better... $1: Conservative Party Of Canada Has The Most Top Donors Of Any Political Party: DataCP | By Steve Rennie and Stephanie Levitz, The Canadian Press Posted: 10/23/2011 2:29 pm EDT Updated: 12/23/2011 5:12 am EST OTTAWA - The Conservatives say the secret to their fundraising success lies in small donations, but a new analysis shows they also have the most donors who dig deepest. A review by The Canadian Press of political contributions found more donors gave the annual $1,100 limit to the Tories than any other party. Around 12,000 people have given the Conservatives the annual maximum since 2007, adding more than $13 million to the party's coffers. Some 7,500 Liberal donors and 1,700 NDP donors have maxed out their annual contribution limit. From these big donors, the Grits raised roughly $10 million and the New Democrats more than $2 million.... posting.php?mode=quote&f=59&p=2153834 $1: Historically, the Liberals have been the party of the 1%. Before Chretien and Harper changed the rules, they were getting huge cash from the big banks. Harper's rule changes benefited the Conservatives. Not sure you can say the same about Chretien's changes, since as you say it reduced inflow to the Liberals.
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