[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

What cultures are vegan? Vegetarian, yes, but no animal products of any kind, including for clothing - doubt there were any cultures like that. little subgroups, yes.

True, there might only be subgroups. I was thinking more of the Indian lifestyle where no animals are consumed. They still use animal products, like milk, so they'd be more veggie than vegan.

Just looked it up. India has the lowest meat consumption in the world. Still only 31% are pure vegetarian. Those 150 million muslims certainly aren't.

I've gone vegetarian for some times (would never give up eggs), but after a while I just feel I'm missing something. Have met many people who were vegetarian for years and all of a sudden started chowing down the meat. Me I like meat and eat it often. The best policy of course is moderation in all things.

[fifeboy]

Newsbot Newsbot:

Title: Halal abattoir staff 'hacked and taunted sheep' in Thirsk
Category: Religion
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2015-02-03 00:19:53

So, what does taunting sheep involve? Something like telling off colour Highlander or Aussie jokes involving hip waders?

[andyt]

fifeboy fifeboy:

So, what does taunting sheep involve? Something like telling off colour Highlander or Aussie jokes involving hip waders?

More like "your momma doesn't wear a burka."

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

What cultures are vegan? Vegetarian, yes, but no animal products of any kind, including for clothing - doubt there were any cultures like that. little subgroups, yes.

True, there might only be subgroups. I was thinking more of the Indian lifestyle where no animals are consumed. They still use animal products, like milk, so they'd be more veggie than vegan.

Just looked it up. India has the lowest meat consumption in the world. Still only 31% are pure vegetarian. Those 150 million muslims certainly aren't.

I've gone vegetarian for some times (would never give up eggs), but after a while I just feel I'm missing something. Have met many people who were vegetarian for years and all of a sudden started chowing down the meat. Me I like meat and eat it often. The best policy of course is moderation in all things.

Yea, I thought it was a great deal larger proportion than we have in North America. And they don't see incidents of things like heart disease or diabetes at the rates we do here. Must be something to it!

After finding out how chickens are treated in order to produce that egg, I just can't eat another one. I don't need an egg that badly. Guess I'm getting soft in my old age.

I've tried a few different meat alternatives, and some of them are pretty good. Setain isn't too bad, but it does take a while to prepare. I got a decent burger recepie for it, and it turned out well. Most satisfying! And I always liked Yves Veggie Ground round instead of ground beef, but I like TVP and TSP more in Burritos. And TVP/TSP plus a little Setain and spices actually makes a passable "meatloaf".

I think though, that I'll end up with many raw or nearly raw vegetable recipes. I got a really excellent cookbook, and some of the soups and goulashes are excellent and don't leave me wanting any meat in them. Corn and potato chowder, with cornbread! Sign me up!

[GreenTiger]

A couple of points:

If a lot of people were to tour a slaughter house in operation they would leave the place as vegetarians;

In this case I would point out that ISIS does the same thing with their hostages so for them inflicting pain and death is entertainment.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

If a lot of people were to tour a slaughter house in operation they would leave the place as vegetarians;

I've killed and butchered plenty of the critters I've had in my freezer.....never turned me off of meat. Mind you I've never tortured an animal either....kill it and kill it quick, if it's food, a menace or a serious nuisance.

[Tricks]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Ever hear of someone in treatment because they ate too much salad?

Yes. If they don't eat something coming from an animal, b12 infused food, or take b12 supplements, they will get brain damage. B12 only exists in man made format, or animal products.

[fifeboy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

If a lot of people were to tour a slaughter house in operation they would leave the place as vegetarians;

I've killed and butchered plenty of the critters I've had in my freezer.....never turned me off of meat. Mind you I've never tortured an animal either....kill it and kill it quick, if it's food, a menace or a serious nuisance.

Just about any well treated "free range" animal or hunted wild animal is better off than a C A F O animal. Tastes better too.

[fifeboy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I think though, that I'll end up with many raw or nearly raw vegetable recipes. I got a really excellent cookbook, and some of the soups and goulashes are excellent and don't leave me wanting any meat in them. Corn and potato chowder, with cornbread! Sign me up!

$1:

Leafy green vegetables such as lettuce and spinach have been found to be one of the top sources of food poisoning, according to a new report released by the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).

Each year, nearly 48 million Americans, roughly 1 in 6, catch a food-borne illness. These numbers include 128,000 hospitalizations and 2,000 deaths. This new report reveals which foods are to blame for these stomach illnesses, based on a decade of data.

According to the CDC, a food-borne disease outbreak is defined as the occurrence of two or more similar sicknesses caused by consumption of a common food.

While many people have become sick from plants, more have died from tainted poultry. The experts reiterate the frequently heard advice: "thoroughly wash food and cook them completely before consumption". Highlights of the reportClose to half of all reported illnesses were caused by "produce". Produce was defined as fruits, nuts, leafy greens and other vegetables. Among produce, leafy greens were most frequently associated with food-borne illness. Generally, norovirus was the germ responsible for the illness.

Regarding infections, dairy was the second most common food source. Poultry was responsible for the most deaths, affecting 19 percent of fatal cases. Most were associated with listeria and salmonella infections. Meat and poultry combined were responsible for 29 percent of deaths and 22 percent of illnesses.

For the 17 food groups that were documented, all 17 were responsible for at least some outbreaks. Nearly half of all outbreaks were caused by a food that consisted of ingredients from several different categories.

Fish and shellfish made up for 6.1 percent of illnesses and 6.4 percent of deaths, while dairy and eggs made up 20 percent of illnesses and 15 percent of deaths. Vegetables Should Still Be Eaten Officials from the CDC have emphasized that their report should not discourage people from consuming vegetables. Most of the vegetable-related sicknesses came from norovirus, often passed by food handlers and cooks. Therefore, contamination is more related to how the kitchen or restaurant handles the food, rather than the actual food itself.

Despite the frequency of vegetable-related illnesses, they were not the most harmful. The largest proportion of deaths from food-borne illness, 1 in 5, were due to poultry.

Traditionally, red meat has been seen as one of the leading causes of food poisoning. However, due to significant safety improvements in beef handling, the study reported that deaths associated with beef accounted for less than 4 percent of the food-related deaths, and less than 7 percent of sicknesses.

The CDC hopes this report will encourage public health, regulatory, and food industry professionals in promoting and putting into action safe food-handing practices.i

In a similar report from 2010, the CDC documented that 48 million people in the U.S. contract a food-born illness annually. During that year they had also recommended - when cooking - to separate food and produce, cook meat and poultry at the correct temperatures, and immediately refrigerate any leftovers. Also, they recommended avoiding consumption of unpasteurized milk and cheese.

Written by Kelly Fitzgerald

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/categories/infectious_diseases/

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yea, I thought it was a great deal larger proportion than we have in North America. And they don't see incidents of things like heart disease or diabetes at the rates we do here. Must be something to it!

$1:

REASONS FOR INDIA’S GROWING CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE EPIDEMIC PINPOINTED IN LARGEST-EVER RISK FACTOR STUDY


Data presented for the first time at the World Congress of Cardiology organized by the World Heart Federation

Dubai (20 April 2012): The Indian Heart Watch (IHW) study has revealed the truth behind the prevalence, awareness, treatment and control of key risk factors that are driving the country’s growing cardiovascular disease (CVD) epidemic, in a first-of-a-kind presentation of data at the World Congress of Cardiology today.

The study assessed the prevalence of different “lifestyle” and biological CVD risk factors across the country – and results show that these risk factors are now at higher levels in India than in developed countries and regions such as the USA and Western Europe.

Seventy-nine per cent of men and 83 per cent of women were found to be physically inactive, while 51 per cent of men and 48 per cent of women were found to have high fat diets. Some 60 per cent of men and 57 per cent of women were found to have a low intake of fruit and vegetables, while 12 per cent of men and 0.5 per cent of women smoke.

Moreover, the prevalence of biological and metabolic risk factors was also found to be high. Overweight and obesity was reported in 41 per cent of men and 45 per cent of women. High blood pressure was reported in 33 per cent of men and 30 per cent of women, while high cholesterol was found in one-quarter of all men and women. Diabetes (and or metabolic syndrome) was also reported in 34 per cent of men and 37 per cent of women.

“India has the dubious distinction of being known as the coronary and diabetes capital of the world,” said Prof. Prakash Deedwania, University of California, San Francisco, USA. “These results show why - and must prompt the government to develop public health strategies that will change lifestyles, if these risk factors are to be controlled.”

http://www.world-heart-federation.org/p ... sk-factor/

$1:

While people in some parts of India continue to battle malnutrition, many residents in the wealthier states have, during the past two decades of the nation’s boom, faced a menace of excess. Rising incomes paired with sedentary lifestyles and starchy, sugary diets have helped diabetes spread furiously.

http://world.time.com/2013/05/12/no-ans ... es-crisis/


IO think you're kidding yourself here a bit about meat. Type II diabetes comes from lack of exercise, obesity and too much sugar and starch, not meat eating. Even for heart health, research coming out now shows that meat and meat fat aren't the villains they were once thought to be. The obesity that comes from eating too much fat (animal or vegetable) on the other had is a problme. Also, the vegetable oils we usually use in Canada, poly-unsaturated, Omega 6 and 9's are shown to cause cancer in excess - we nee to balance them with Omeg 3's and mono-unsaturates.


Meat good. Ugh.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Many creatures actually hunt for sport.

Twain says man is "the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, KNOWING IT TO BE PAIN."

It is the knowing, as he elaborates in the next sentence

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

And they don't see incidents of things like heart disease or diabetes at the rates we do here. Must be something to it!

It's the processed foods that have become so prevalent in our diets along with sedentary lifestyles. A diet high in simple carbs - white flour, sugar, high-fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated fats is what has led to the explosion in type 2 diabetes. If you look at cultures that relied primarily on animal protein, root vegetables and seasonal fruit(high fibre foods) for the bulk of their calories, there is almost zero incidence of these metabolic diseases. Another part of the problem is all the drugs we pump into the animals we consume.

[DrCaleb]

Tricks Tricks:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Ever hear of someone in treatment because they ate too much salad?

Yes. If they don't eat something coming from an animal, b12 infused food, or take b12 supplements, they will get brain damage. B12 only exists in man made format, or animal products.

B12 comes from bacteria, and there are many vegan supplements for it such as fortified yeasts. But, that's still not from eating too much salad, that's from not eating the right kinds of salad. It can also be obtained over the counter from a pharmacist, for injection - if people are that militant about it.

fifeboy fifeboy:

$1:

Leafy green vegetables such as lettuce and spinach have been found to be one of the top sources of food poisoning, according to a new report released by the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).

Each year, nearly 48 million Americans, roughly 1 in 6, catch a food-borne illness. These numbers include 128,000 hospitalizations and 2,000 deaths. This new report reveals which foods are to blame for these stomach illnesses, based on a decade of data.

According to the CDC, a food-borne disease outbreak is defined as the occurrence of two or more similar sicknesses caused by consumption of a common food.

Bean sprouts are terrible for it as well. Always wash veggies, especially greenhouse grown ones! Improperly chilled carrot juice killed a bunch of people only a few years ago.

The risk of bacterial infection from vegetables is far outweighed by the consequences of obesity and its related risks from animal proteins and fats, like heart disease and cancer.

andyt andyt:

IO think you're kidding yourself here a bit about meat. Type II diabetes comes from lack of exercise, obesity and too much sugar and starch, not meat eating. Even for heart health, research coming out now shows that meat and meat fat aren't the villains they were once thought to be.

When did I say that Type II diabetes came from anywhere else?

andyt andyt:

The obesity that comes from eating too much fat (animal or vegetable) on the other had is a problme. Also, the vegetable oils we usually use in Canada, poly-unsaturated, Omega 6 and 9's are shown to cause cancer in excess - we nee to balance them with Omeg 3's and mono-unsaturates.


Meat good. Ugh.

And that's what I've been saying.

My problem with meat is the way animals are treated in modern farm settings, even the ones that pretend they are 'free range' or 'organic'. I'm not trying to tell anyone what their morality should be, I'm saying what mine is. The more I've researched where meat comes from, and how animals are treated; and how little meat is important to our health - then the less I feel I need to eat meat as part of my diet. If someone feels OK with where their meals come from, by all means keep doing as they are doing!

I feel no need to contribute to that cycle, and will do so as little as possible.

[DrCaleb]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

And they don't see incidents of things like heart disease or diabetes at the rates we do here. Must be something to it!

It's the processed foods that have become so prevalent in our diets along with sedentary lifestyles. A diet high in simple carbs - white flour, sugar, high-fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated fats is what has led to the explosion in type 2 diabetes. If you look at cultures that relied primarily on animal protein, root vegetables and seasonal fruit(high fibre foods) for the bulk of their calories, there is almost zero incidence of these metabolic diseases. Another part of the problem is all the drugs we pump into the animals we consume.

The North American lifestyle has also seen meat as a huge proportion of calories in the diet because of cheap corn that is fed to animals that never evolved to eat corn.

I've been saying for a while, if it takes 10 times to calories in vegetables to make 1 calorie of meat; why don't we stop clear cutting forests to have room to feed cattle and just eat the vegetables instead? Win-win all around!

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

just eat the vegetables instead

booooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggg

2/3 of my plate is veggies now.