[sandorski]

Protips- You may be a Nutter if part of your rebuttal of something is, "The CBC/BBC/PBS/Etc said...". Media outlets report News, usually based off Studies or from some Experts.

[N_Fiddledog]

And you may be an indoctrinated idiot if you don't know the media outlets you just mentioned are famous for their bias.

With the BBC for example it came out last year there were indoctrination sessions from warmist organizations within the BBC instructing them how to present warming stories. One of their big names was fired for not getting with the program. I can show you another one of their names kowtowing and changing a story after pressure from a warming activist.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Batsy2 Batsy2:

The BBC - which is into all that Global Warming nonsense - told us in 2007 that the Arctic will be completely ice free by 2013.

In fact, there is more ice there now than there was in 2009.

No, not a fact. In fact, the exact opposite of a 'fact'. This year was the 6th lowest ice volume on record in the Arctic.

Oooh you came so close there, Doc. I could just almost call bullshit.

Actually the 2009 minimum is so close to 2014 we pretty much have to say tie.

http://arctic-roos.org/observations/sat ... ce_ext.png

If only you'd stayed with 2007 Batsy. Why didn't you stay there. We would have had him.

There are some other interesting facts (yes facts) on 2014.

First of all when you're talking ice extent and "the record" you're only talking about the thirty year satellite record. Nobody knows the full story in actual data before that, because there are no full data records, but there are newspaper stories of spectacular melts going back to the 20s. The Northwest passage was first navigated by Roald Amundsen in 1903–1906. During the 40s the RCMP schooner St. Roch crossed the Northwest passage both ways.

But click the link on that graph of ice melts above. Notice how radically the line for 2014 shifts right towards the extent minimum in September. Notice how much earlier it does it than the other years?

Isn't that interesting? The overall trend for the thirty years is increased melt, but since the freaky, storm caused melt of 2012 the ice appears to be bouncing back. So if there is no freaky storm or El Nino next year, what's the best guess for what's going to happen again, only more so.

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Batsy2 Batsy2:

The BBC - which is into all that Global Warming nonsense - told us in 2007 that the Arctic will be completely ice free by 2013.

In fact, there is more ice there now than there was in 2009.

No, not a fact. In fact, the exact opposite of a 'fact'. This year was the 6th lowest ice volume on record in the Arctic.

Oooh you came so close there, Doc. I could just almost call bullshit.

Actually the 2009 minimum is so close to 2014 we pretty much have to say tie.

Wait, it's a close tie, but I'm talking bullshit?

Sorry, but what's the title of the thread? Like I say, call me when we get headlines of 'Arctic ice is above average'.

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

If only you'd stayed with 2007 Batsy. Why didn't you stay there. We would have had him.

No, not with both my arms tied behind my back and a bad case of the flu.

[sandorski]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

And you may be an indoctrinated idiot if you don't know the media outlets you just mentioned are famous for their bias.

With the BBC for example it came out last year there were indoctrination sessions from warmist organizations within the BBC instructing them how to present warming stories. One of their big names was fired for not getting with the program. I can show you another one of their names kowtowing and changing a story after pressure from a warming activist.

You may also be a Nutter if everything seems to be a Conspiracy.

[N_Fiddledog]

sandorski sandorski:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

And you may be an indoctrinated idiot if you don't know the media outlets you just mentioned are famous for their bias.

With the BBC for example it came out last year there were indoctrination sessions from warmist organizations within the BBC instructing them how to present warming stories. One of their big names was fired for not getting with the program. I can show you another one of their names kowtowing and changing a story after pressure from a warming activist.

You may also be a Nutter if everything seems to be a Conspiracy.

What conspiracy? Facts are facts.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Wait, it's a close tie, but I'm talking bullshit?

No, "almost bullshit" as in, right on the border there.

You got lucky this time, but c'mon admit it, you know how close you were to having to go "Damn...He got me again!"

If Batsy's darned finger hadn't slipped from the 7 to the 9 you were done like dinner.

[PluggyRug]

sandorski sandorski:

You may also be a Nutter if everything seems to be a Conspiracy.

That's a quote straight from the nutter'a handbook.

[Zipperfish]

It's only a 35 year record but quite a remarkable one, given the trend of the rate of decrease. The arctic ice doesn't seem to be having the same pause as the surface temp record.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/02/as-sea-ice-melts-amid-global-warming-35000-walrus-crowd-the-shores-of-alaska/

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It's only a 35 year record but quite a remarkable one, given the trend of the rate of decrease. The arctic ice doesn't seem to be having the same pause as the surface temp record.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/02/as-sea-ice-melts-amid-global-warming-35000-walrus-crowd-the-shores-of-alaska/

The real reason the walrus are congregated in such a huge number isn't global warming, it's because no one's slaughtering the g*ddam walruses anymore and their populations are rebounding!

This is good news but leave it to the leftards to spin what should be good news into bad news.

See, the question isn't just "When was the last time we saw 35,000 walruses in one place" the question is "Who the hell knew there were 35,000 walruses at all?"

Something to see is the fact that this walrus/global warming crap is nothing new. The media's been playing this same song for years.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/10/01/ ... -rebuttal/

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It's only a 35 year record but quite a remarkable one, given the trend of the rate of decrease. The arctic ice doesn't seem to be having the same pause as the surface temp record.

I don't know...let's look at it.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere ... arctic.png

We've both got biased eyes, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

I imagine you have something with lines. Let's have a look at them.

The 30 year trend is down, of course, but what happens when you start to pick it apart. Not that one little trend, or what happens inside it matters much, of course.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It's only a 35 year record but quite a remarkable one, given the trend of the rate of decrease. The arctic ice doesn't seem to be having the same pause as the surface temp record.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/02/as-sea-ice-melts-amid-global-warming-35000-walrus-crowd-the-shores-of-alaska/

The real reason the walrus are congregated in such a huge number isn't global warming, it's because no one's slaughtering the g*ddam walruses anymore and their populations are rebounding!

This is good news but leave it to the leftards to spin what should be good news into bad news.

See, the question isn't just "When was the last time we saw 35,000 walruses in one place" the question is "Who the hell knew there were 35,000 walruses at all?"

Something to see is the fact that this walrus/global warming crap is nothing new. The media's been playing this same song for years.

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/10/01/ ... -rebuttal/

I'll take the word of teh US Geological Survey over a "special report" from climate depot. They are pretty biased. I hadn't realized that this was a recycled story, but I do note that this year is the largest ever recording of walrus numbers.

[N_Fiddledog]

I liked the link to the Polar Bear site put out by Zoologist Dr Susan Crockford.

$1:

The attempts by WWF and others to link this event to global warming is self-serving nonsense that has nothing to do with science.

This may have been “one of the biggest onshore gatherings of the animals documented in Northwest Alaska“ that has been photographed but it is not the only time this has happened.

At least two documented incidents like this have occurred in the recent past: one in 1978, on St. Lawrence Island and the associated Punuk Islands and the other in 1972, on Wrangell Island (Fay and Kelly 1980, excerpts below).

http://polarbearscience.com/2014/10/01/ ... ice-cover/

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I don't know...let's look at it.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere ... arctic.png

We've both got biased eyes, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

I imagine you have something with lines. Let's have a look at them.

The 30 year trend is down, of course, but what happens when you start to pick it apart. Not that one little trend, or what happens inside it matters much, of course.

I agree. You need to see a number of trends over a fairly long period of time. The natural variability of weather from several cycles is much larger than the theoretical forcing of tropospheric heat due to anthropogenic CO2, which means, to my mind, we may not see more marked effects until 2050, or 2100. Even then, there may be negative feedbacks (such as a changing water balance that will mask the effect.

So, lots of uncertainty. But I'm pretty confident the cahnges we're seeing now are due to CO2. I think, from a theoretical perspective, we should be looking at somewhere between 05. and 1 deg C increase in average temperature from all the CO2 we've pumped into the atmosphere (ignoring climate sensitivity). And that's pretty close to what we've seen, so that adds up for me.

It is definitely getting warmer in the arctic, so you'd expect to see some changes in the ecosystem as it adapts.

[N_Fiddledog]

Speaking of walruses...