[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It is a Constitutional right to vote, there is no cost involved to vote. The homeless man, or the guy who hunts and traps in Kugluktuk both have this right. But the guy in Kugluktuk has never had the need for ID, because everyone knows him. In order to get ID, he has to go to Yellowknife to a Service Canada office, with ID that he's never had. How does he get ID for ID without ID? How does he pay for a flight to Yellowknife in the first place?

But what if I have to drive to the polling station, should they pay for my gas to get there?

How does anyone get ID without ID? How does the kid in Toronto get his drivers license without any ID?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Irrelevant! Citizens have the right to vote! Denying even one person of their constitutional rights should be seen as an injustice to us all. If one right can be denied to anyone for arbitrary reasons, it can be denied to any of us.

And they do have that right....they just have to prove they are indeed Canadian to vote and who they say they are. If you can't prove who you say you are...too bad.

We claim to hold democracy in such high regard when in fact, our "vouching" process is half-assed and less than 60% of people often cast a ballot even with these loose and half-assed rules.

All these people you claim will be devastated by this change and robbed of their right likely don't vote anyways.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

But what if I have to drive to the polling station, should they pay for my gas to get there?

There is no constitutional right to drive, and this bill does not stop anyone going to the voting station.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How does anyone get ID without ID? How does the kid in Toronto get his drivers license without any ID?

They have a birth certificate, and presumably some other ID they acquired along the way. Not everyone does.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

And they do have that right....they just have to prove they are indeed Canadian to vote and who they say they are. If you can't prove who you say you are...too bad.

Hence, my concern that people who are Canadian and have the right will be denied that right arbitrarily.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

We claim to hold democracy in such high regard when in fact, our "vouching" process is half-assed and less than 60% of people often cast a ballot even with these loose and half-assed rules.

As Zip points out, how was it done in 1867? Seems that parts of our country haven't moved much beyond "hey aren't you Martha Smith's boy?".

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

All these people you claim will be devastated by this change and robbed of their right likely don't vote anyways.

Speculation, based on nothing more than opinion. Voter turnout in 2013 for Kugluktuk was 63%. But that's irrelevant, as people will still be denied the right to vote.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

They have a birth certificate, and presumably some other ID they acquired along the way. Not everyone does.

Everyone has a birth certificate...exactly....and kids don't have any other ID besides,a SIN card and a health card that they get at birth or shortly after.

Every Canadian has a health card and birth certificate. Two items you can use to vote without having to use someone to vouch for you.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

As Zip points out, how was it done in 1867? Seems that parts of our country haven't moved much beyond "hey aren't you Martha Smith's boy?".

Times are different.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Speculation, based on nothing more than opinion. Voter turnout in 2013 for Kugluktuk was 63%. But that's irrelevant, as people will still be denied the right to vote.

Just as you speculated that this will effect a lot of people, right?

Bottom line here Caleb, every Canadian is given two or 3 documents which can be used as identification to vote. The vouching system just leaves our system open for voter fraud. Lock it down and force them to use the documents provided to them for FREE by the government already.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

[
Bottom line here Caleb, every Canadian is given two or 3 documents which can be used as identification to vote. The vouching system just leaves our system open for voter fraud. Lock it down and force them to use the documents provided to them for FREE by the government already.

Your bottom line maybe.

My bottom line is that this is a premeditated move by the Tories to tilt the democratic process in their favour. There is no widespread voter fraud, despite protestations to the contrary by the Tories. So the act seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Not to mention other problematic aspects of the bill, such as stripping Elections Canada of their power and moving election enforcement closer to the political arena.

Frankly, the longer the Conservatives stick to their guns on this, the better as far as I'm concerned. Canadians have a bad taste in their mouth about this. It's given Mulcair and Trudeau more ammunition--something to keep the Tories a little off-balance in the run-up to 2015. Trudeau has already said he will repeal it.

[westmanguy]

How bloody difficult is it to meet the requirements? Not much.

Even as a student when my permanent address was back in Manitoba, I used my cell phone bill and university residence contract and was all set to vote in BC (more competitive riding). Poor folks can get a note from a soup kitchen, or a prescription bill bottle.

The requirements aren't that onerous. So I really don't buy this BS about voter disenfranchisement.

[Jabberwalker]

Everyone has a birth certificate...exactly....and kids don't have any other ID besides,a SIN card and a health card that they get at birth or shortly after.

Every Canadian has a health card and birth certificate. Two items you can use to vote without having to use someone to vouch for you.


Apparently, you are now required have your address on documents like this to vote, as well. As far as I know, there are no birth certificates that carry addresses. (How would anyone know where you're going to end up.?)I saw a little piece on Sheila Fraser, who said that her student daughter did not have the documentation to vote using the new rules. When she was asked by the Minister "Doesn't she have a health card?" and the answer was that "Yes, but it doesn't have her address on it". I guess that it's possible, as well.

[DrCaleb]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

They have a birth certificate, and presumably some other ID they acquired along the way. Not everyone does.

Everyone has a birth certificate...exactly....and kids don't have any other ID besides,a SIN card and a health card that they get at birth or shortly after.

Every Canadian has a health card and birth certificate. Two items you can use to vote without having to use someone to vouch for you.

Just as you speculated that this will effect a lot of people, right?

Bottom line here Caleb, every Canadian is given two or 3 documents which can be used as identification to vote. The vouching system just leaves our system open for voter fraud. Lock it down and force them to use the documents provided to them for FREE by the government already.

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Apparently, you are now required have your address on documents like this to vote, as well. As far as I know, there are no birth certificates that carry addresses. (How would anyone know where you're going to end up.?)I saw a little piece on Sheila Fraser, who said that her student daughter did not have the documentation to vote using the new rules. When she was asked by the Minister "Doesn't she have a health card?" and the answer was that "Yes, but it doesn't have her address on it". I guess that it's possible, as well.

As Jabberwalker points out, and I saw the same interview with Shelia Fraiser, birth certificates and health cards don't have addresses, and the new legislation requires picture ID with an address. So I reiterate, if that's what's required to vote, then the Government should provide that ID to allow citizens to maintain their constitutional right to vote. Otherwise, they are arbitrarily taking away a citizens' constitutional right.

I'm not the only one pointing this out! Shelia Fraiser, and just about everyone else who has testified before this commission has said the same thing.

[DrCaleb]

westmanguy westmanguy:

How bloody difficult is it to meet the requirements? Not much.

Even as a student when my permanent address was back in Manitoba, I used my cell phone bill and university residence contract and was all set to vote in BC (more competitive riding). Poor folks can get a note from a soup kitchen, or a prescription bill bottle.

The requirements aren't that onerous. So I really don't buy this BS about voter disenfranchisement.

Then why do all the experts testifying at the Senate hearings all say that it will?

And:

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/politics/in ... ories.html

[fifeboy]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Irrelevant! Citizens have the right to vote! Denying even one person of their constitutional rights should be seen as an injustice to us all. If one right can be denied to anyone for arbitrary reasons, it can be denied to any of us.

Very, very well said!

and

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

ALWAYS vote! Even if it's to spoil the ballot.

Which is why I say we should have NONE OF THE ABOVE as an option on every ballot, in every election, even for school boards. Or, as an option, if we don't have mandatory voting, anyone who does not vote is automatically put down as NOTA in the vote counting.

[OnTheIce]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

As Jabberwalker points out, and I saw the same interview with Shelia Fraiser, birth certificates and health cards don't have addresses, and the new legislation requires picture ID with an address. So I reiterate, if that's what's required to vote, then the Government should provide that ID to allow citizens to maintain their constitutional right to vote. Otherwise, they are arbitrarily taking away a citizens' constitutional right.

I'm not the only one pointing this out! Shelia Fraiser, and just about everyone else who has testified before this commission has said the same thing.

All Canadians have the proper documentation to vote.

There are 39 forms of acceptable ID's you can use to vote and that will not change. The suggestion that they will now need to contain an address is false.

[Jabberwalker]

It's time for National Identity Papers to be carried on your persons at all times. It will certainly help the police battle this huge and current crime wave and it will allow those at the border to find evil doers that much more quickly. Voting fraud will disappear overnight, as any no-account, homeless lay-abouts "without papers" will be denied their opportunity to go from riding to riding voting illegally skewing the election results.

[OnTheIce]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

It's time for National Identity Papers to be carried on your persons at all times. It will certainly help the police battle this huge and current crime wave and it will allow those at the border to find evil doers that much more quickly. Voting fraud will disappear overnight, as any no-account, homeless lay-abouts "without papers" will be denied their opportunity to go from riding to riding voting illegally skewing the election results.

Or maybe people be a little more responsible and remember where they have their multiple instances of free government ID.

[Regina]

I feel like I'm missing something here. Why is it wrong to prove you are who you say you are when voting?

[Gunnair]

Regina Regina:

I feel like I'm missing something here. Why is it wrong to prove you are who you say you are when voting?

Gotta admit that I'm having a hard time disagreeing with that. If government issued ID is all that is needed, then get on with getting your ID. If, however, the act is moving the goalposts and stating that the ID you need must have your address and the government issued ID does not have that, then there is a problem.

My SIN and provincial health card do not have my address, for example. Without a DL, (see student) then what?

[fifeboy]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

It's time for National Identity Papers to be carried on your persons at all times. It will certainly help the police battle this huge and current crime wave and it will allow those at the border to find evil doers that much more quickly. Voting fraud will disappear overnight, as any no-account, homeless lay-abouts "without papers" will be denied their opportunity to go from riding to riding voting illegally skewing the election results.

thegospelofstevo thegospelofstevo:

We live in evil times